Reflective Parenting by Curious Neuron
A parenting podcast that doesn't tell you HOW to parent your own child. We teach you how to think during parenting challenges and help you build emotional intelligence skills to lower your stress and help you cope with those challenging emotions that come with parenting.
Neuroscientist, Dr. Cindy Hovington can help you parent your child with confidence and feel competent by helping you understand your triggers, recognize and break your emotional patterns and teach you how to model healthy emotional coping skills for your child.
Cindy is the founder and CEO of Curious Neuron, is an internationally recognized emotional well-being resource for parents with their evidence-based educational content being consumed in over 70 countries! She is a leading thought expert in emotion regulation and parental well-being as well as an international speaker on well-being and emotional development in children.
The goal of this podcast is to help parents gain awareness of their emotional triggers, build your confidence as a parent, understand how their past influences behavioural patterns they can stuck in and help them learn how to model healthy emotional coping skills for their children. We do this by discussing the science of emotional intelligence and effective parenting practices.
Join us every Monday for conversations with leading researchers and best selling authors in parental well-being, childhood adversity, attachment, emotional development, stress management and emotion regulation skills. Past guests include Dr. Bruce Perry, Dr. Marc Brackett and best-selling authors Dr. Ramani Durvasula and Stephanie Harrison.
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Reflective Parenting by Curious Neuron
How the connection recession is impacting parents with Rich Woo
Discover the importance of forging meaningful connections and the healing power of friendships, especially after periods of isolation. In today's episode, I chatted with author of The Connection Recession, Rich Woo.
We discuss the following key points:
• Emphasizing connection as essential for mental well-being
• Personal anecdotes highlighting the necessity of nurturing relationships
• Strategies to combat loneliness, especially for new parents
• The value of intentional community engagement in maintaining friendships
• Addressing barriers like fear of rejection and time management
• The need for proactive communication in sustaining bonds
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Jo...
The relationship recession, the path to building meaningful connections in a disconnected world, and I think this is such a relevant topic, especially now as we are in the aftermath of a pandemic where we were so isolated Some of us have felt that that's, you know. We can continue that. Why not Like it's simpler, especially for those of us who are introverts. But I think that the aspect of connection, especially knowing the research if you look up Dr Bruce Perry's research or read his books, the research on connection reminds us that there's a healing aspect to it, there is a nurturing of our mental health and well-being aspect to it, and so if we've been through adversity, trauma, or if we're going through stress right now, connection, friendships, relationships that we build are an important and integral part of our wellbeing as parents, and so I hope you enjoy my conversation with Rich Wu as much as I did. I will see you on the other side and don't forget to take a moment to click out of this episode and leave a rating and review. You can do this on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify. Send me an email at info at curiousneuroncom and I will send you Meltdown Mountain, which is our most popular PDF on our website, and I'll send it to you for free as a thank you. You can follow us on Instagram at curious underscore neuron and grab a freebie below in the show notes.
Speaker 1:And if you are interested in learning how to regulate your emotions, build that self awareness and build stronger relationships both with your child and the adults around you, grab a chat with me in my calendar. I'm no longer just for a little bit, but no longer allowing people to directly come into the Reflective Parent Club. I want to take a moment to chat with you first and get to know you, and when I get to know the people first, I build content for you specifically inside the Reflective Parent Club so that it feels like you are part of this. I want to make sure that we all feel connected inside the Reflective Parent Club and that you remember that you matter too. All right, enjoy my conversation. I'll see you on the other side. Welcome back everyone to the Curious Neuron podcast and I am here as promised with Rich. Welcome, rich.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. Cindy, Really excited to spend some time with you.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited to see you again. I've been on your podcast and I remember such a lovely conversation and I was excited to bring you back. And first, congratulations on your book. I read it and really enjoyed it, and I think that we need to all read this book to have the conversation that needs to be had, which is around friendships. You know, I'm always curious to know where's the idea of like hmm, I need to write this book. So what was that like for you? Yeah, how was that seed planted in your mind?
Speaker 2:No, I appreciate that. I think it's a couple different places. One I've had people say hey, you know why don't you write a book? But it's much easier to ask someone to write a book than actually write a book yourself. So you know, there's always been some different thoughts and stirring in my mind too, and I shared this with you before when I was, when I was in high school.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, my, my mother passed away in an accident. It was a freak whitewater rafting accident we ended up losing her in, and I think that at a very young age I was 15. My younger brother was seven was very formative, in the way that I think, about relationships. I learned at a young age that life is not promised. The next day is not promised. You might think, oh right, now I'm 43 years old. Well, the average person lives till 80. You're not guaranteed tomorrow. My mom passed away when she was in her early 40s and so it made me realize at a young age that life is fragile, that we're not guaranteed the time, and the time that we do have, you have to make the most of it.
Speaker 2:So I think I've always kind of carried that intentionality and so when I was thinking about writing the book I was like, oh, what do I know about? Well, I know about people and I know about business. So at first I thought I was going to write a networking book, just a business networking. And I was like it's not really inspiring. And I just cause I know about it doesn't mean I want to write about it. And so I was like what's really inspiring? And to me, the idea of investing in relationships, making them count, not just like living life in relationship by default but by design, those kinds of like themes seem very important to me. And so hence you know the book, the relationship procession. I actually have a copy right on my desk.
Speaker 1:I have it on my Kindle. It was so good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing our story with you and I'm so sorry that you had to experience that in such a you know, such a young age as well. I appreciate that you brought that part of the book because it made me understand the why behind everything that you do and everything that you shared. Right, because I have a friend who had a similar experience losing a family member at a young age, and what's interesting is that what happened to her was it was you only live one sort of thing, like you need to make sure you live and experience life, whereas your kind of response to that was you spoke about like family, like bringing your family, your, your your father and your, your brother together for family dinners. Right, like it's just interesting to see how you know something like that happening to you at a young age leads to different people taking different paths. Right, and your path was connection. So I just I really really appreciate that.
Speaker 1:And how did you? After you know you? You were very intentional about creating these family dinners. What did that look like? As you were, you know, in your 20s and 30s and you know now you're working and you have, like, more people around you, how did you continue that connection into your adult life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, thank you for asking. There's a couple of things there. One part of where I got the idea from, like the family dinners, was, yes, the importance of attention or relationships. But I saw a blog post by do you know the guy named Tim Urban. He's done like a big TED Talk. He has a blog called Wait but why?
Speaker 2:And there's an article that, like millions of people have read. It's called the Tail End and essentially with like pictures, he's just drawing like how much, so that you can kind of visualize how much time you have left with someone. So he says something like okay, your parents are 60. You see them once a year. Average person lives to like 80. So and then he kind of draws his stick figures you got 20 times left. You eat pizza twice a year. You know you might eat pizza maybe for the next 40 years. You love pizza but you know shouldn't probably eat a lot of pizza when you're like 80 years old. You got 40 years left. You only got 80 pizzas that you're going to live left, really enjoy it.
Speaker 2:And so that one post actually inspired me at a young age to say wait, how much time do I have Like my mom's not here? How much time do I have left with my dad or even my brother? I don't know. But what I do know is that we're all busy. If I just leave it to chance and just don't schedule something that you know we might meet up once a month, once every couple months, a couple times a year.
Speaker 2:But if I say, hey, let's get together Sunday afternoon, we're not no one's really busy, then Once a week we don't have to hang out every day. Well, that turned into maybe 45 times. You know, you miss a couple of weeks here and there. In a year, over 10 years, 450 dinners. To me, I feel like that's a much better outcome than I don't know we get together a couple times a year, over 10. I don't know, we met up 20, 30 times over a 10-year period. I just think if you don't have something by design, intentionality and something in your calendar, it's not going to happen as much as we think. So.
Speaker 1:Right, and sometimes we're lucky enough to have those you know nagging parents, as we might think right, or like, come over for dinner, I haven't seen you, I miss you, why don't you call me Right? And I think sometimes we take that for granted in terms of like, okay, I don't have time, I'm busy, I'm busy, and we use that as an excuse. And it's one thing talking about family, and we do try to see them when we can, but friends is a completely other thing. It's so easy to say no to a friend because everything else is first right Our family, our partners, our extended family you know, extended family, whatever it is and then ourselves and our friends. That goes down the list. But you've been in very, you've been very intentional about that as well, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's interesting because I know now folks like, uh, you know my, my parents' age, folks in their seventies and eighties, and you look around and some people have vibrant relationships some that you know maybe formed those relationships more recently, but many because they kept up those relationships over time. And then you see folks that you know our parents aged in their seventies and eighties and they don't have anyone around them and they never bothered to stay in touch with people or just hone those skills of like developing friendships over time. And so maybe your spouse passes away, maybe your kids are far away, maybe your spouse passes away, maybe your kids are far away, you don't have a community anymore. And so I think we sometimes, in efforts to stay in touch with our family which are important our spouse, our kids, you know, near family members we forget about a very important part of life which is the rest of the community, our friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree. So this past summer I took time to speak to 100 parents. I wanted to make sure that I can have a really good understanding of, like what parents were experiencing. And besides parents saying that, they really struggle with emotions, which is what I helped them with, the second part that they mentioned, you know, over 90% of the time was loneliness, and this is why I think your book is so relevant.
Speaker 1:So you know, especially when it's it was new moms, let's say, coming into parenthood for the first time, first child maternity leave, not going to work, feeling disconnected from colleagues and friends and not having the time to do things because they have a very small child at home, they seem to really struggle with that loneliness aspect. To say it's just moms, but they were the ones that were really mentioning that. What sort of advice would you give to that parent who's like how can I even go out? I can barely take a shower right like there's. No, it's impossible for me to make connections. And and some of these parents and these moms were also in isolated areas, away from family or away from cities where they had made friends before and because of work or their partner's work. So there's a really big isolation piece which, we know through research, impacts our wellbeing, and so what can we do if we're a new parent and feel so lonely or isolated?
Speaker 2:Wow, that is such. It's so funny because I wanted to talk about that. Loneliness is a silent killer. They say that loneliness someone who's actually, you know, feeling experiencing loneliness that's the equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And yet, you know, we think about our health, we think about, you know, our finances. No one thinks about their relationships and how important that is to overall well-being.
Speaker 2:One of the studies that I cite and was the basis for my book was a 1938 Harvard grant study that followed 700 people over 85 years and the biggest finding that they found was people with deep and meaningful connections in their lives had higher levels of satisfaction, happiness and longevity in their lives. And yet you contrast that with what's going on today in America. 50% of Americans are saying, hey, I don't feel satisfied with my relationships. 57% of Americans say, hey, I feel I feel lonely some or most of the time. And this is the biggest one.
Speaker 2:And think, among men you were talking about women feeling lonely 20, 20% of men, more than 20% of men report not even having one person that they can confide in. I personally I don't know the numbers and I can't recreate the study I think the number is more like double, because when I talk to just men. People have fantasy football leagues that they're in. They have basketball leagues that they're a part of poker games that they go to. They don't have real friends that they can talk to. Hey, my marriage is falling apart, my kids are driving me crazy and I don't know what to do because I'm yelling all the time. Things aren't going well at work and I'm really stressed out Most men. It's really sad when you talk to them and I say, well, who can you talk to about that? They don't have a single person.
Speaker 1:So that's something interesting, because whenever I go out with friends not very often, but we try our best every two months to get together.
Speaker 1:And it's not a group of friends, it's different friends that I meet and I met them in different times in my life and so we stayed connected.
Speaker 1:And what's interesting is most of our partners don't go out, they don't take the time to meet with a friend, they don't have coffee with a friend, there's nobody that they text, and so their best friend, their partner, is their wife and therapist and all of that right, because we therapy ourselves and when we meet each other, like, oh, I had the worst week and you know, we talk together and we try to gain a new perspective. So what do you hear? Like just kind of to go into this a little bit deeper, right, like what's the barrier? On? On the other side, women seem to be very intentional in terms of, like, meeting up with people and friends and and making sure we kind of maintain those relationships, but we still feel lonely when we become new parents because we don't have that connection. How do we, or how could we, support men a little bit more to remind them of the importance of that connection with someone?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really good. I'll offer a couple thoughts and then maybe a strategy. Well, especially for men, I think there's a lot of invisible forces at work. I think one just in society. Right, it's not masculine to talk about your emotions or say, hey, you know, can we like catch up over coffee to just talk about what's going on in life, right, like, so you have this like masculinity thing that you have to overcome.
Speaker 2:Then I think there's just like a universal fear, fear of rejection. I reach out, you know, you know. Uh, john reaches out to me and I say, hey, man, I'm busy. He reaches out again. Hey, I'd love to, but I can't. Now you don't want to ask the third time, because it's like who wants to feel like they're getting rejected? And this is not even like you're not trying to go on a date, you're just trying to go out with a guy friend to catch up, and now you're going to reject me three times. I don't want to do that again, right, so there's a fear of rejection.
Speaker 2:I think there's an invisible getting rejected fear that the person's going to think that I'm weak. Because I want to talk, just catch up and talk. I could just watch some Netflix. Maybe I'll just order something off an app. I have a Spotify playlist that I could listen. There's just so many other things I can do. Who cares? I don't want to do that. And then you got the old. You know, hey, yeah, I only see my best friend once a year on their birthday syndrome, right. And so what's? What are practical strategies? That's actually I talk a lot about that in my book, but I think one thing that I'm really really more and more everyday convicted about is outside of your spouse or your next door neighbor, who you're just going to inadvertently bump into every day on the way to work. Yeah, I personally have a belief that it's going to be nearly impossible to develop a meaningful relationship with anyone else outside of that If it is not for a recurring environment. What do I mean by that?
Speaker 2:Weekly basketball game you can plug into a book club, a dinner club, something that you enjoy. That happens without you having to plan it. Why? Because it's easy for everyone to opt in, so no one's having to. Hey, should we do this? Should we not? Can you meet at four, three? No, wednesday doesn't work for me. My kids forget it. You get rid of all of that. It's something that you enjoy, so you want to keep going to. So either one of two things has to happen. You either have to take your group of friends that you like and find something that's reoccurring that you don't have to plan and jump into it together. We all like food. Let's go out to dinner once a month, right? Or, if there's just not that convergence among friends, find something that you like and then meet some new friends. But if it's not for that, I just I have this from personal experience and I'm very proactive in my friendships. Even with that, it's hard to get in touch with even my closest friends. So that's my main conviction recurring environment.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that that was like the for me, like the simplest thing that we can start applying. That I learned from your book, which was like start with something that interests you, right? So you mentioned before a book club or exercise or working out or whatever it is, you know whether it's at work and like connecting with somebody who says, like I also work out of the gym, oh, which gym do you go to? Right? Like you sort of painted that picture of a conversation that you can have and I really felt like your book was like this sort of like recipe book, of like making friendships as an adult, which I loved because we forget, and you know what's funny is, as I was reading your book, I was like, wow, we put so much focus on making sure our kids make friends right With young kids were like go see that, go go to the park, go go see that child, say hi, tell them your name and make friends. But then, as adults and I'm speaking for myself too like now I'm not in the, I work from home, so, and I have my own company, so I'm not leaving my house it's really, really hard to meet new people, but I do it through my online community and my work, and so thank goodness for that, because I need the connection with new people.
Speaker 1:But at work, when I was there, I wouldn't intentionally try to meet up with them. It was too much work. It was, you know, like after work I'm going to go home and, like you said, I'm going to unwind and I'm an introvert, and so there's so much work that goes into like having this small talk with the person right, like this is a podcast. It's very different, but people that have been following my podcast for a while know that I don't dig into the like. So how have you been kind of it's hard for me to do that. I'm like, ok, let's get into your work. You know, like that's what I do best. So there's so many factors that I think contribute to making it really hard for us to push ourselves past that difficulty. Yet we're doing it, we're telling our kids to do it, so you've really helped us. No-transcript.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Intentionality is the key here. It's so interesting because I feel, like you know, in just everyday life, we're intentional about our health, we're intentional about our work. We're intentional about our health, we're intentional about our work, we're intentional about our kids, we're intentional about what we eat and even exercising. All that is in front of us, like all the social media and things are built around that, but we're forgetting like the most important thing are relationships.
Speaker 2:So great, I'm like in great shape and great Like I, I um get to sleep early. You know, matthew Walker, stuff right, and I've got a good sleep schedule. Great, my kids are doing well in school, but I don't have this relational community that will help me grow and build wisdom and challenge my perspectives and help me with child rearing and give me a place where I can be heard and understood when I'm going through a tough time. All these things are extremely important to human development and living and yet, for some reason, we just all neglect that. It's just, you know, I guess that's not important or I'll just settle for the default, which is I hope I just bump into people and develop a relationship.
Speaker 1:Right, or not even putting the work into that, or not even thinking that, just thinking that the loneliness or not the loneliness, but not thinking that you don't need somebody. Right, Like I've had this discussion with my partner, with my husband, where he's like I'm happy alone. Right, We've had this, and he's like I don't need the problems of other people, I don't need extra stuff in my. I have three kids and a wife, so apparently I'm enough. Now there's just too much going on. You know Like he's and a wife, so apparently I'm enough. Now there's just too much going on. He's like that's enough.
Speaker 1:And so we have to kind of remind ourselves that we don't want friendships to become a chore or something that's like oh, I'm meeting somebody. And I think when you focus on your interests, it makes it much easier to meet with somebody and say like, oh, let's talk about the book you read. Or it doesn't have to be a sit down dinner or coffee, right, Like you talk about. Like going to the gym with somebody or playing, you know, pickle ball or whatever it is, racquetball, who cares? Just something where you can be, you can spend the time with that person and just let off some of that stress that we have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I think there's. You hit it on the head because I think sometimes we think about like relationships is like I don't need another person that I'm just going to sit down and stare at for an hour and just like about what? But you're killing like multiple birds with one stone, right, like if I I guess kind of crude expression but yeah, but if I'm like going out to to to play pickleball I enjoy pickleball, it's exercise. I get to hang out with a friend which is usually a good thing and laugh and be understood and build a relationship. Maybe I become a better parent because I learned a tip.
Speaker 2:There's multiple things going on in that interaction that go beyond I don't need just another friend. It's much deeper than that and I think sometimes we fail to appreciate that. But it's definitely worth it right in the end when we invest in those relationships. And to your point, I don't think you don't need to join 15 different sports leagues and have five dinner clubs in a movie club. You can do this with a couple of people, right, and it doesn't have to be every week, it could be once a month. But I think the point is there's a lot of value in disguise, that we're missing, and what we don't want to do is wake up 20 or 30 years later and say, do is wake up 20 or 30 years later and say, oh my gosh, all these people have these incredible relationships. They've evolved as human beings. They learn so much along the way, they laugh so much along the way, they cried with other people along the way. I didn't have any of that. You don't want to be that person.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you, right, I know I had a similar experience to yours as well in terms of a vacation with a friend.
Speaker 1:I'm 41 and I took the first vacation with a friend, like this year, as a 41 year old, and it was amazing and it's we kind of opened up to each other and it was the same thing in terms of like, wow, we've known each other since we were 13, 14.
Speaker 1:And it took a trip in our forties to like really get to know each other, like we realized like we hadn't really connected before, that, right, and so I really think it's important to kind of come out of your comfort zone sometimes too, and just like, dude, I never would have thought I would have taken a trip with a friend, like to me it was just like it's family trips and somebody doesn't have to take a trip with a friend. But just put yourself a little bit out of that comfort zone which you talk about. You allude to that too, you know, in terms of we've at work and somebody says they play pickleball, why not say like, hey, do you want to want to meet up? You know, like, but it feels so vulnerable and that's hard for us too, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. I think one of the things that I think about with regards to the relationships. I often get this you know kind of statement I'm just too busy, I've got work, I've got a couple of kids at home, that enough is like way too much, I don't. How could I possibly meet up with anyone? I think what they're saying is like if I want to do a good job at my, at my work which is important and I want to be a good family person, there can't possibly be any time for anything else.
Speaker 2:And I I would disagree, I would say and I encourage my wife all the time, because in the beginning she was like this.
Speaker 2:She's like no, I've got stuff to do at home, I cannot be outside, I cannot meet up with any friends. And I would say, okay, first of all, going out once a week for a coffee with your friend, which I think you should do, is going to help you feel rested, energized, excited. Everybody needs to take a little bit of a break so that you can come back and be a better wife, a better mom, a better taking care of all the things that are important in the household and are about to blow up, and I just think that if that argument was true that hey, you don't have time for it, then why even sleep? We all know sleep and recovery is so important, right, and we give attention to that. I also think reprieve from some of our responsibilities and things at home and at work for smaller pockets of time doesn't have to be five hours a day, an hour a week, two hours a week, I think actually makes you a better parent, a better worker, a better business person, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm glad that you brought in your wife, because that's my next question that I'm going into. Like, I was really curious to know, like, what that looked like for you and your wife in terms of friendships and the frequencies. So what would you say for both of you, like, what does that look like?
Speaker 2:Our cadence is, you know, once every other week, because usually so many things come up. We try to go on a date night, so whether it's like with another couple or whether it's just us two. And I also find like during there's different pockets of time too. Even on the ride to a like a dinner date with another couple, we get time to talk with each other and I think that's really important. So we'd like to be at once a week. But you know, right now, with I have three kids under five, there's just a lot of doctor's appointments, and going to thing Every other week is a really good cadence for us. Also, on the week I usually am probably have like one dinner out. Sometimes. That's business. I try to also do that with relationships and friends, so I do get some reprieve. Also the same for her.
Speaker 2:She's got a lot of high school college friends, friends. You know she's a part of book clubs, so she tries to go out once a week and it's great Cause, like I'll stay home. You know when she goes out the kids are already about to go to sleep. Anyway, I'll watch the kids and then the flip like when I have to go out to dinner again. I'm there most of the night and then, right before they go to sleep, they just know okay, dad's going to go out for dinner, mom's going to be home, they'll put, she'll put them down, and and it's working. We got three kids under five. It's working well. We feel energized and excited and the kids are fine.
Speaker 1:See, and that's why I wanted to know, because I think it's very easy for us to say there's no time, but we have to be more intentional. That word's going to keep coming back, I know, in our conversation, because we're not doing that. We're just saying there's no time. And I have a membership, and what I've helped parents do is you kind of put everything that you don't have control over into your schedule right. Whatever meetings work, whatever you know that you have to say yes to it's. You know you put it in first, but then I don't care about everything else.
Speaker 1:I want you to put in time for yourself. You are next right, and so where are you going to schedule you know that 20 minute walk that you want. Where are you going to schedule? You know your workouts if you have to, or just even 10 minutes of saying, wow, I'm going to have a big day and then I'm coming back home and we have sports and there's a lot to do, and so I'm going to sit for 15 minutes in my car with that coffee and really be intentional about that time. We try to do that a little bit more, and what comes after, and what we struggle with, or members sometimes struggle with is now where do I put the friend stuff right? But it could be that's your personal time too. If there's somebody that sort of regulates you and you feel good after you've spoken to them, you can call them on your way home from work. You can be more intentional about making that connection.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I'm going to say something a little bit bold, could possibly offend some people, but I think if it's for the good, then I'm okay with it. Everybody has time. It's just it's already assigned. It's already assigned. It's already assigned. And you know how? How? I know because there was and I wrote about this in the book um years ago.
Speaker 2:I remember, looking at my phone, it just had like a little diagnostic that came up on my iPhone and it said you spent, on average, eight hours per day on your phone. Eight hours, eight hours and 34 minutes. Eight hours and 34 minutes. I was like I'm busy, I wake up early in the morning, I get a workout in, I'm at work all day, I'm doing stuff with my family. There's no possible way and yeah, some of that was for work, right, I'm like picking it up, writing, emailing, but not all of it. And if I have even four hours, four hours, I mean I can't even go to a four hour dinner. So if I have four hours a day extra, you certainly have an hour a day.
Speaker 2:And so I think this whole notion that, oh, I don't have time, go look on your phone, see how much time you spend on it we all have time. It just leaks out in different ways and, to your point, if you don't schedule it, it's going to be assigned to other things that we don't want. Oh, just kind of random scroll here, 30 minutes random looking in the fridge. There, 45 minutes random, just kind of fumbling around on TV. And then all the time that you could have used to build incredible relationships with your family, your friends, it's been given to stuff that you don't really care about, of stuff that you don't really care about.
Speaker 1:Literally, you're getting nothing in return. Right, and most parents that are scrolling we've spoken about this again inside the membership but we feel there's guilt after it. It's like, oh, it feels crappy a bit, you know, like, oh, why did I do that? I should, I could have been doing this, I could have been doing that, I was bored and now I'm like I just with you and, yes, sure, maybe it's bold, but I think we all know it deep inside that we do have time, we, you know we. We just have to be more strategic in how we plan our time, and sometimes I've even said this, I think, online, but I think that we don't respect our time.
Speaker 1:And that's my bold statement, you know, in terms of like I don't think that we respect our time enough and we're very careful how we spend our money, but we don't think twice about wasting three hours on our phone. We don't think twice about, you know, saying yes to all the birthday parties when our kid doesn't even care in the end, and so we can say yes to one and no to the other three and actually have a weekend together as a family.
Speaker 2:We don't respect our time and so I would add that to what you said. No, I think that's a really important insight, because money, it's very visible. It's like okay, if I spent $100 on something, oh, it's not in my bank economy. Time is not such because people don't think in those terms. They don't think, oh wait, I just gave three hours of my time to this, why would I do that? Right? And then you think, oh my gosh, like, oh, whatever, it's fine. And then the same thing happens the next day, the next day, the next day. Imagine if time was a bank account like, you probably wouldn't want to see that thing being wasted, right? But most people don't think in those terms and I think it's really important to start thinking about. Your time is very valuable.
Speaker 1:Right. So I'm curious about a skill that I know. Many parents struggle with boundaries. You spoke about this in your book and I think that sometimes that's something hard for us to do in life in general, and so when it comes to friends, we don't set the right boundaries and then we feel like this is not working right, like they're taking up a lot of our time or there's no boundary in terms of they're calling us during dinner, maybe I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there, but there's there's a lack of that boundary which makes it feel like it's not healthy for us or it's not working out. What have you had any of these experiences and how did you kind of navigate that? Or was boundaries or boundaries something you were always good at setting?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a couple of things.
Speaker 2:No, not necessarily. And actually I would say first and foremost, I was probably the. I was probably the culprit because a lot of my friends got married before me. I got married at 39. A lot of my friends were married in their late twenties, even early thirties, and I remember calling them up and I shouldn't have, but I remember calling them up and saying like, yeah, let's go out, let's let's go out to eat, let's go hang out. Like yeah, let's go out, let's go out to eat, let's go hang out, let's go watch a movie, let's go play some basketball at like seven, eight o'clock at night. And they would tell me over and over hey, man, like I can't, just I've got like kids at home, I got to get up early tomorrow, you don't have to do any of that, you're single. And I remember used to other end of that where people are like what's the big deal? Move something around, you don't have to be at home. And I'm thinking like do you not understand, right? And so a couple of things around boundaries.
Speaker 2:One, I think just like being very upfront and honest about things instead of just like having to kind of reject people and saying, ah, you know, I can't today, just being like, look, I'm just in the season of life and this part is hard and I just I can't go out at nine o'clock at night, nor do I want to, because I have to wake up at five to watch these kids. And being clear and open in your communication from the start, especially with other friends. I think that's important. I think secondly is just being proactive. Going back to scheduling things.
Speaker 2:So if I want to maintain this relationship but I can't go on the like one off, like nine 9pm, let's go hang out and go out to eat or go to a bar, well, great. Well, what if I schedule something in advance, like a zoom call? Or hey, why don't we get lunch? Because I can, you know, I can do a one hour lunch, like once a month. Why don't we do that in advance? So you're proactively investing and feeding the relationship, versus having to reject the person who's like making an effort. You got to value the effort and saying, well, I can't, I can't, I can't, and then the person eventually giving up and then the relationship starting to dwindle you know right, yeah the communication and and setting things up in advance to be proactive.
Speaker 1:I think those two things that I've done so the other thing that comes to mind, which I was hoping there wasn't there wasn't a chapter on this and I was maybe the next book. So what happens when, let's say, you, you befriend somebody at work, things are great, and then you start meeting them and then you're like, oh, I'm getting to know them and it's not working really well. I haven't been in the dating world since I was 16, but how in the world do you break up with that friend? What would you do? How do you, kind of, do you just let it go? You start saying no until they get the point. Because this has to be. I think we have to have this conversation right, because you will meet friends and maybe that's something that's stopping somebody saying, like, well, what if in the end, I don't get along with them? Then what do I do? Like, well, what if in the end, I don't get along with them? Then what do I do?
Speaker 2:I'm stuck with them Like what does that look like? Exactly, exactly Well, I think there's an appropriate time to to have a very honest, frank conversation. That might not feel fun. I think there's also a time that you don't. It doesn't necessarily deserve that.
Speaker 2:If let's say, for example, you know me and another person we just met up at work. We're building a like, building a friendship. First time we hung out it was kind of cool, but then, the more I get to know them, I'm like ah, maybe our values don't align At that point. If we've hung out one or two times, I don't owe it to them to sit down and be like well, this is kind of what I value and this is what you value, and I don't really like that. So here's why I'm not going to hang out with you anymore. I don't think it needs all of that. I think people get the point like oh okay, we hung out once, it was fine, we're not going to be best friends, that's okay. I think we both as adults giving and receiving that kind of implicit message, I think we should be okay with that. I think if it's someone that you grew up with and maybe, over time, grew apart because of your values, I think that's where, if you're going to be a mature adult, I think, out of respect for the history of the relationship, it's better to do it.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying that I've done this perfectly. To be honest with you. There's times that I regret in the past that I knew someone. We had a longstanding friendship. Over time we kind of drifted apart based on values or stages in life and I just kind of faded away and I think they were maybe owed that conversation, but at the time I just wasn't mature enough to give it. But I think the people would really value that.
Speaker 2:One, people know where you stand after that conversation and two, it's a growth opportunity for them. Like, how amazing would it be if someone gave me that conversation and just said hey, rich, I really like you, I have a lot of fun, but there's some things that you do that I just I don't agree with. And again, I'm not saying that you're a bad person, I'm not saying that like I hate you, I'm just saying that that's not something that I want to align with. I would be like wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2:The person is willing to put themselves in an uncomfortable situation to help give me positive feedback. Really that could help me with my life If I'm the right person I'm actually taking. I might not feel good in the moment, but I'm the right person I'm actually taking. I might not feel good in the moment, but I'm taking that feedback and say, wow, this is an incredible human being and I actually want to change so that I can stay in touch with a person like this. So, again, easier said than done, I have not executed on this perfectly, but I have done it for people that I've cared about and at the time it's not easy, but it's like short-term pain for longer term gain in relationship.
Speaker 1:I just find that, you know, you have to be respectful of that long-term relationship and I've also, you know, many years ago, kind of doing like, especially when you become a parent. I think that's when you see a shift, maybe the first, maybe not the first, maybe that's the second shift. I think finishing university, there was a shift in friendships. Then, getting married and having kids, there was another shift in friendships. Than getting married and having kids, there was another shift in friendships in the sense that, like, some didn't have kids yet and so they were off on their own and I couldn't, like keep up with their lifestyle and so things. You know, it wasn't aligned. So I think it's really important for us to kind of acknowledge that there will be shifts. You know, and that's okay. Being honest, that you're not in the same place, in the same place in your life is something that you can, you know, also have a conversation around. Yeah, I just wanted to bring that up because I know that sometimes it's uncomfortable and you're like, oh, you know, even becoming a parent, you're like that person's parenting this way. Maybe my values have changed now that I'm a parent and I don't align with their values, and so it doesn't feel right anymore. You know to be with them. We have to acknowledge that we don't.
Speaker 1:What I don't like, what we shouldn't do. Maybe that's a rule, I don't know, but when you see somebody and you haven't seen them in a while and you say let's grab coffee, but you don't mean it, don't, don't do that, right, it doesn't feel good Because you can tell, because you're following them on Facebook or you know whatever it is social media, nobody's taken the the effort or tried to kind of connect. But then you see each other in person, you're like, oh, I feel bad, I haven't written to them. We should have coffee. Let's not do that. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Right, I totally agree. Words are really important. Words are really important. You have to follow through on what you say or just don't say it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Just don't Exactly. Okay. So let's say, somebody is listening to this, there are moms and dads that listen to this podcast, and so maybe there's somebody out there who still is not convinced that it's important to have relationships, because they're maybe feeling content and satisfied with what's around them. Like, how would you convince somebody or at least kind of like, start plant the little seed of we should? We need connections. Connections truly are important for wellbeing. We know that from the research. But now how can we sort of convince this person to take the baby steps that they need to do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw somewhere, I think on social media, like this reel about you know, 30 years from now, you would give everything that you have to come back to this point in your life. So if I'm 43, 73, yeah, I would probably give up any extra money that I had and you know, you know bigger house to be able to be back with my little kids. So I think that was emphasizing the importance of like, don't waste. Don't waste these moments with your young children. But I think the same thing could be true um, you know, in the future, you, 30 years with your relationships, 30 years from now, you would come back and give these opportunities while you're still young, while you're still healthy, while you're still energetic, while you still have friends that are still alive, to come back and actually rekindle those friendships. And you gotta, you gotta envision yourself in the future. You're 80 years old and either one of two things happen neither, which is good. Like you, you wake up and you're like, wow, again, my partner's you're my partner's not here anymore, my kids are far away. I didn't invest in any of those relationships.
Speaker 2:So, like, I'm going back to these people now and they're like I don't really know who you are man. We, last 30 years we've been going on the golf trip and hanging out and going out to eat. Like you're showing up, we're different people. You're a different person. You can't just pick up Like I know. It's like you have those friends that you're like, oh, I'm just going to pick up where I left off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but not after 30 years. Right, like I'm not just because I was best friends with someone in first grade, I'm not going to be like, oh my God, we like did everything together. You're the same person. Now let's just pick up Like they don't even know who I am anymore, right, and so I think you know either A who knows if they're going to be around B you don't want to wake up and then have invested in everything else except for relationships. So you got a really nice house. You got a big, you know you got a big investment account. You got a big, you know you got a big investment account and then you have no one to share that with. Right, like I just don't know if people want to be there. So I think sometimes you have to put yourself in the future and think backwards to like if I don't want that to be true that. What are the small steps and habits and and reoccurring events and relationships that I need to start sowing into now so that I don't end up there 30 years from?
Speaker 1:now, right, yeah, and if one-on-one is intimidating, community is important, right, like it's, you're getting the same sort of you. Know you, maybe you don't want to have the one-on-one conversation, but being with people it's so important and I think about. We visited Italy my husband's Italian and so we went to these little cities and I was blown away by at these little coffee shops, like how many small groups of men were together, you know, like having a coffee together, and they were really really old, but like they would make their way and I know they walk everywhere, so there's an added factor to their health, but they're walking from their house with their cane to go visit their friend at the coffee shop, right, and at the cafes. And so there's this feeling of like I'm going to go see Pepito whatever his name is right, like just to go. There's something that feels so good.
Speaker 1:An example is today, actually, my friend called me and said I happen to, I'm going to be downtown tomorrow. Do you want to meet up tomorrow? But we just saw each other last week but I was like I can't, I'm working, I just saw you last week, but now I'm like itching. Tonight is going to be really hard to focus because I'm going to try to think, like, how can I see her? I need to make sure I can see her.
Speaker 1:There's this feeling of excitement right Of going to see somebody, and so I think that, whether it's that one person or that community that we really have to push ourselves because, again, I think you paint that great picture of in the future, it's not a given who's going to be around us. Our kids are going to be older. Yes, they like to be with us now, but they're young. There's going to be a moment where they have their own lives and their own family and their own friends, and we have to have that go-to person. Again, it doesn't have to be 30 friends, it could be that one person that we can reach out to, or that community, and and that could be anything spiritual, religious, right, anything that just feels good for you, that you feel um seen and you're not wearing your armor and you can be yourself I think is important that's right, that's right yeah yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:Thank you for the book that you've written um. I really encourage everybody to read it. We will put the link in the show notes and and the link to your instagram as well. Is there anything else happening that we can know about um or any other way that we can learn from you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, check out my podcast, the Power of Connections. Check out Cindy's episode. It was awesome, cindy, you were so great on it and I would love to engage with you. Feel free to reach out. My email and contact information will be in the show notes. So, yeah, I would love to connect with anybody.
Speaker 1:Thank you again. Thanks everyone for listening. Please make sure you take a moment to rate the podcast and subscribe to it and leave a review, and we'll see you next Monday. Bye, sure that you catch that. I'll try to remember to mention it in the next podcast episode. We don't have a date yet, but we are working on that, and so take a moment to sign up to our newsletter, follow us on Instagram, Facebook and I will see you next Monday. Make sure you're subscribed to the podcast. I'll see you next time. Bye.