Curious Neuron Podcast

Am I escalating this situation with my child?

• Cindy Hovington, Ph.D. • Season 7 • Episode 25

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Understanding how to navigate emotional responses with our children is vital for fostering healthy relationships within families. This episode explores the importance of self-awareness, recognizing triggers, and methods to de-escalate conflicts with children for more effective communication and connection.

• Emphasizing the challenge of escalating vs. de-escalating situations 
• Identifying and managing parental triggers 
• Sharing a personal story about a challenging parenting moment 
• Discussing the impact of emotional regulation on children 
• Highlighting the importance of self-awareness and reflection in parenting 
• Exploring the unique emotional needs of each child 
• Encouraging connection as a solution in difficult moments 
• Suggesting practical techniques for parents to foster understanding and communication 
• Recommending engagement in the Reflective Parent Club for deeper support

Want to join Curious Neuron's Reflective Parent Club?

If you want to build your self-awareness, identify your triggers and learn how to cope with emotions in front of your child book a discovery call with Cindy:
https://calendly.com/curious_neuron/intro-chat-for-1-1-coaching

Join our newsletter:

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Get your FREE 40-page workbook called Becoming a Reflective Parent:
 https://tremendous-hustler-7333.kit.com/reflectiveparentingworkbook

Please leave a rating for our podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! Email me at info@curiousneuron.com and I will send you our most popular guide called Meltdown Mountain.

Join me on Instagram:
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Join our Facebook group called Reflective Parenting:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/theemotionallyawareparent/


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Speaker 1:

Hello, my dear friend, welcome back to another episode of the Curious Neuron podcast. My name is Cindy Huffington and I am your host. Today we are going to reflect on something together. So today's a solo episode, and I want us to give a thought to whether or not we escalate a situation with our child or de-escalate. The reason why I want us to reflect on this is because we had this conversation inside the Reflective Parent Club this week and I just thought it would be a really good reflection for all of you to kind of sit with this week podcast. Without them, this podcast would not be possible and this podcast would not be possible without you.

Speaker 1:

So thank you to those who have been taking the time to rate the podcast and leave a review. I've been getting a lot more recently and I really appreciate it. For those of you who have a bit of time this week and want to rate it and review it, you can do it on Spotify or on Apple Podcasts. Send me an email and let me know, send me a screenshot. If you have time, anything, just rate it, please and review it. It helps the podcast move forward. And if you aren't subscribed to the podcast, make sure you are so that you get updated every Monday when a new episode comes out. So send me your screenshot.

Speaker 1:

I just lost my train of thought and switched, and I will send you Meltdown Mountain. This is a PDF that you can purchase on our website, curiousneuroncom, but as a thank you, I'm going to send it to you, and what you can do with this PDF is that there's a part that you can print a page, and it has a mountain on it and it has a visual so that you can talk to your child about what it feels like to get dysregulated and what it looks like when you are either climbing the mountain or taking the rocket ship to get to the top of the mountain. That is how we talk about it inside the Reflective Parent Club, and every single month, by the way, inside the Reflective Parent Club we do chat with our kids. So I invite kids to a call and we talk about emotions in different ways. We have talked about meltdown mountain, we have talked about a book called what's wrong, little pookie I read it to them and we talked about mixed emotions. We have an activity sheet for that. So if you're part of the curious neuron newsletter, you have have received this PDF for free and I will send it out again next week. So make sure you are part of the newsletter and if you don't know how to join the newsletter, send me an email at info at curiousneuroncom. But you can visit our website.

Speaker 1:

And next Monday oh, today actually this is coming out on Monday. So today is another call with kids and we are going to be talking about the book called the Very Cranky Bear. I'm going to read it to the kids and then we're going to talk about why it's important to let adults know what's going on inside our mind, what we're thinking and how we're feeling, because it allows parents around us or adults around us to help us with our emotions, because emotions can be really difficult. So that's part of the Reflective Parent Club. But, as you know, every single week I meet with you and, as you're going through the program that we have in the course, I want to make sure that you have a space to talk about your challenges and to share wins as well, because it feels good to have this community around you as you navigate the challenges of parenting. If you are interested in the Reflective Parent Club, it's now a three-month program, no longer a membership, so you don't have to worry about payments coming through every month and you get support from me. But to join, you can't just click anymore. To join, you need to meet with me. I'm sorry, but I just thought it'd be easier that way, because I was meeting with everyone who was coming into the Reflective Parent Club, but some people that were joining weren't responding to the email. They didn't see it somehow, and so I realized that before you come in is just so important for us to meet, because I write down everything we talk about and I build content based on what your needs are and everybody's needs are, and so that's why you now have to meet with me. So click the link in the show notes and book a time in my calendar, if you are new here.

Speaker 1:

By the way, at Curious Neuron, the goal of Curious Neuron is not to give you parenting advice. We are all about emotion regulation skills, and if you are somebody that really struggles with coping with your emotions or stress, then this is a space for you. What I want to do with the Cures Neuron podcast is really bring some conversations and interviews and topics like today that will help you think about different aspects of your everyday life and reflect on them Because through reflection, we can gain more awareness of where we can make some changes or where there are tools or skills that we need to learn to improve certain parts of that. So that's the whole point. There are articles on CuriousNeuroncom or you can visit us on Instagram or Facebook at Curious underscore Neuron on Instagram or just Curious Neuron on Facebook.

Speaker 1:

All right, so the reason why this topic came to mind is because of something that happened with me. I don't know what your triggers are, um, when it comes to being with your kids or your child. Um, even if you have a baby, there might still be some triggers. So I want to normalize this. We all have triggers. We even have triggers with our partners, but what I really wanted to kind of shed light on are moments when we might unconsciously kind of increase or make things worse or, you know, or escalate the situation with our kids and we don't realize. So what happened is that two of my kids will argue more than with the other one and whenever something happens, if I'm regulated and we're in a situation where things are calm, I usually and I know they would say this I usually respond to them arguing or fighting with questions.

Speaker 1:

Well, I ask them to pause, and then I'll say, all right, how did this start? Who's first? And then they'll say, well, he started, or he did it, or you know he said this or he said that. And I'll say, okay, let's ask some questions. Did you tell him what you wanted or did you just pull the toy out of his hands? Well, I just pulled the toy out of his hands. Okay, why do you need it? Did you explain why you needed this particular toy? No, okay. Well, next time, if you can do that, I'm sure it will help. And so I go on that way.

Speaker 1:

So that's, I would say, 80% of the time, maybe even a little bit more. I would say 80% of the time, maybe even a little bit more. But there's always that 10 or 15% of the time where my reaction to it is like can you just stop, just stop. And when I react that way, I see the difference right away. And I caught myself the other day where my kids were arguing and I said it's enough, stop. And then one of my kids became more upset and said well, it's not fair, he's always taking it and he's always doing this. And I said stop, it doesn't matter, stop, it's enough. You guys have been arguing for X amount of time and I'm done, it's enough.

Speaker 1:

So what happened in that moment? Well, I didn't respond to them, I didn't give anybody the chance to explain themselves, I didn't ask, I didn't get curious, I didn't ask questions because in that moment I was done, I didn't care. These moments will happen. I'm not saying that they'll never happen, but when we catch ourselves, when we are self-aware which is the whole point of the Reflective Parent Club I'm trying to help parents become self-aware. Is you catch yourself? The Reflective Parent Club I'm trying to help parents become self-aware. Is you catch yourself?

Speaker 1:

So, by not giving that child an opportunity to speak, to explain themselves, to say that it really wasn't their fault that their sibling was starting this, that particular child became more dysregulated. And that particular child became even more upset and started getting mad at me and raising his voice. And so my reaction to that is don't even think about raising your voice. And then his reaction to that is why can't you just listen to me? And so on and so forth. And so we just like, held hands and climbed that mountain together, melt that mountain. Here we come all the way to the peak, to the point where we're both dysregulated and somebody has to notice, and so it is our responsibility as the adult to notice that we escalated it again.

Speaker 1:

It's not it's impossible to never, um kind of do this unconsciously. If we do have the right skills and tools, we can say whoa, hold on, cindy, pause. Look at what you just did. You just reacted, and your reaction to this led to your child not feeling heard or seen, which led to them getting even more upset, which led to you getting more upset, which led to them becoming infuriated, which led to them getting even more upset, which led to you getting more upset, which led to them becoming infuriated, which led to your rage. And nobody's doing anything about it. And it's my responsibility as the adult to catch that situation.

Speaker 1:

And so I said whoo, okay, hold on, let's pause for a second. And then my child looked at me and I said I'm ooh, I'm sorry. Second. And then my child looked at me and I said I'm Ooh, I'm sorry. You know what I realized in this moment? I never asked what happened before, and this child was like yeah, exactly. I said okay, let's, let's just both take one little breath together. Whew, all right, I'm sorry. I I just got so upset because you and your brother have been arguing so much for the past hour Like it's just too much, my brain can't handle it right now. You've thrown me off that mountain and I'm fully dysregulated, and so I'm sorry. I had trouble coping with my emotion of feeling frustrated. I'm sorry. I'm here, I'm listening, tell me what happened and guess what? He came down Meltdown Mountain pretty fast actually, and then I was able to hear what happened and I, as the regulated parent, was able to support my kids in their argument and then step back. I say step, I support first and then step back, because the youngest is five and so obviously he's still learning social emotional skills, but he's at the point where he can verbalize to his older brother or older sister how they made them feel, and so that's why I support and then I step back, because I want to allow them to have the conversations they need to have in order to learn social emotional skills and speak to each other about their emotions.

Speaker 1:

There are a few things that are key to all this and to kind of catching yourself. So the first one is self-awareness. I know that when my kids are arguing or one child is disrespectful or mean to the other child. That's one of my biggest triggers. I, as you know, through Curious Neuron, always talk about curiosity and compassion, and so kindness and empathy, compassion, are values of mine. We forget that one of our triggers could be misalignment of our values and this dysregulates us right. So knowing what your values are, which is part of what we do inside the Reflective Parent Club, is so important, because then you're able to say, hey, this is exactly what triggers me. I know myself, I know this and I need to make sure that I address this.

Speaker 1:

And so just knowing that this situation is a trigger, maybe for you it's your child whining, maybe it's arguments with your partner and things that they say or the way that they say it you know what your triggers are. I know that. You know what they are, but writing it down kind of brings it to your self-awareness, makes it a little bit more surface rather than like internal and deep. Also, when you write down all of your triggers or start noticing, maybe you're like you know, whining, yes, is a trigger of mine, but I don't really know what else is. You know something that like, really like triggers me or dysregulates me. Then maybe you can start noticing this week. Maybe that's the first step.

Speaker 1:

Again, there are big things, right, like obviously being shamed or disrespected or, you know, put down, belittled, all of these big things that we have with adults. So, whether it's your boss or a colleague or a friend or a parent or your partner that's going to throw you off. But let's take a moment this week to kind of notice all the little, the small things with our child because, or our children because, again, the more that we can be aware of it, then what happens? Is that right? When it happens, you can say right away in your mind this is something that triggers me, this is something that I struggle with. And so if you're preparing dinner or folding laundry or somewhere in your house and you hear two kids arguing and fighting, say it in your mind this is one of my triggers. Okay, I'm going to have to make sure that I move about this slowly.

Speaker 1:

And the best thing that you can do in the middle of you kind of getting triggered and getting angry at your child is to pause. Just take a moment. Three seconds, two seconds, whatever. It is a very short pause where you just analyze or assess yourself like, okay, am I escalating this moment? Ask yourself that question in the moment Am I escalating this moment? Ask yourself that question in the moment Am I escalating this moment?

Speaker 1:

And if things are getting worse, then you have to ask yourself how can I deescalate this moment? Do I need to regulate myself right now? If this is one of my triggers, then this is going to be harder for me. How can I regulate myself in this moment? Do I need to step away and say you know what? I'm going to address this in five minutes. Not ignoring it, that's not. That's not taking a moment, not saying you know we'll talk about another time.

Speaker 1:

Then you avoid it because you're like I don't want to address this. And, by the way, my friends, this applies not just between you and your child, but between you and your partner. Avoiding a situation because you know it's going to be a trigger is not the best thing to do, because it means you're not having the conversations that you need to have. Whether it's with your child or your partner, a friend, a family member, you need to have these conversations. And so if your child I don't know, maybe it's an older child and something happened at school and you're like, nope, not dealing with this now, it's okay if you don't know, maybe it's an older child and something happened at school and you're like, nope, not dealing with this now. It's okay if you don't have the capacity, let them know. Say this is really important, but I don't have the capacity to deal with this right now. We're going to revisit this in an hour or we're going to revisit this tomorrow morning.

Speaker 1:

First thing on Saturday morning, you and I are having a conversation during breakfast Same thing with our partners. You know what you could say. I had such a really you know stressful day today and this is just way too important to me to ignore. I can't ignore it, but I don't have the mental capacity to think clearly right now. Or you could say I'm just so dysregulated with what you said and I don't want to say something I regret, and so I'd rather take some time, give me one hour to decompress, one hour to regulate myself, and then I want to come back to this because this conversation matters to me and you matter to me, and so I need to come back to this. This or there is a very big difference between this and completely ignoring something, right? So all this to say, even if a situation dysregulates you or triggers you. It's not a reason to avoid the situation. It is not a reason to ignore it. You're still going to have to go in there. You're still going to have this conversation.

Speaker 1:

But now, going back to the situation with your child, if there's a moment that's truly triggering, come back to it when you can. Now, if there is something that keeps coming back, if you start taking notes this week and you're like you know what it keeps coming back, if you start taking notes this week and you're like you know what, now that I've taken notes down for a week, I noticed that, yeah, sibling arguments or fights really are triggering to me Then I would still or suggest, I would suggest that you do kind of take the time to either journal about it or think about it while you're running or going out for a walk or working out, or call a friend and say, hey, you know what I noticed? These arguments are more triggering to me than I had realized. I don't think you need to go back all the way to your childhood If you feel like you do. Maybe you know I've spoken to some parents that have there's one parent in the relationship that really struggles with sibling arguments, or one sibling ignoring the other sibling or not wanting to play with the other sibling, and part of that is because of the relationship or the lack of relationship that they have with their own family and so, or their own siblings, and so that could be, you know, a reason why you want to dig deep into the past. But you don't always have to. You can just acknowledge that this is a trigger for you. You can reflect on it a little bit and say, hmm, I wonder where this comes from.

Speaker 1:

There's the book Parent Yourself First. I interviewed Brianna a couple of weeks ago. Her book came out a couple of weeks ago as well. But that book can be a helpful guide to you if you do want to kind of explore some of the things that might be coming up for you, and so you can do it. But you don't necessarily have to, but it just helps, right?

Speaker 1:

Because if you are extremely triggered, if you go from zero to 100 every time your kids have an argument, then the reality is that this pause that I'm talking about, this self-awareness, might be harder for you because you're going to be so dysregulated 10 on 10, dysregulated that it's going to be so hard for you to catch yourself and pause and respond to your child rather than react. And so how can you bring yourself from, I don't know, maybe a 10 to a 7, which is still dysregulated, or an 8, let's say, but you'll have the capacity to pause and notice certain things versus a 10 on 10. You absolutely don't. You don't notice anything, you're just seeing red. And so how can you start a little bit of the work? And again, that's something we do inside the Reflective Parent Club. So if you need support, you're not looking for therapy, maybe you're just looking for guidance in terms of learning how to cope with emotions. That's what we do, and you can click the link in the show notes, all right.

Speaker 1:

So when we think about moments when we are completely dysregulated and you're like you know what, cindy, I catch myself. Then I don't know what to do. Like I'm just so mad at my child, or they're so frustrating, or they're annoying me, or they're, I don't know, whatever it is, whatever emotion you're feeling, and you say, well, now what do I do? Well, there's this connection thing, and when we take time to connect with somebody, you don't even have to worry about the scripts, you don't even have to worry about your parenting style, it doesn't matter in that moment, just connect. So if you catch yourself in a moment when you are escalating the situation because it's just this moment has dysregulated you and now you're getting mad at your child and your child's getting mad at you and you're stuck, notice, pause and connect.

Speaker 1:

When you connect with your child, just that, even if we just get out of the example of our child in us and think of you, know, in a relationship, imagine being in a heated conversation or argument with your partner and they pause and say, whew, hold on. I can see how upset you feel or how angry you are right now. I'm sorry, let's just take a moment to breathe together. I hear you. I'm struggling to really understand where you're coming from, but I hear you, let's pause together. Wow, well, hold on.

Speaker 1:

If they do that, you feel seen or heard or validated, and when you do feel those things, you feel connected. And when you feel connected, it regulates your nervous system. That's the science around it, and so, if we can find ways, you know some parents that I work with privately and, by the way, our new cohort, or my new cohort, is starting in March, and so if you are a parent that you're you say you know what this program, this three-month program where I'm joining group calls every week. That's not my thing, but I really need personalized support and I want to meet with you, cindy, every week, or every other week actually, and get you to create activities just for me. Then send me an email at info at CuriousNeuroncom Cohort, starting in March, and I only take five and I already have three. So if you want that spot, let me know.

Speaker 1:

But all this to say, you really don't have to remember any script. Just remember, notice yourself escalating the moment, pause and then connect with your child because that connection will help regulate them just enough, hopefully, that they start to think again in their best way possible. And you start to think again in your best way possible because you're no longer blocking all that activation to your prefrontal cortex and the rational and thinking part. And so when we can do that, then we have better conversations, better arguments if it's with a partner and everyone just feels a little bit more seen and heard. The next thing you ask yourself in that moment is well, first you should be getting curious, right, like the same way that I do with my kids, like okay, what happened? And the what happened question might lead to everybody yelling, and so what you just want to do is figure out, like, who needs what from me right now, or who needs something who needs? Maybe?

Speaker 1:

Every child has different emotions and reacts or responds very differently, and one child needs time alone, the other child might need a hug, that's okay. Take the time to think about what the needs of each child are. Ask them. Ask them what they need, and that's another way to connect with your child just by asking them. Okay, I see that what your brother did right now really upset you. What do you need from me? Well, they might say talk to my brother or ground them or whatever, whatever it is, but just ask the question.

Speaker 1:

Okay, to close all of this up, you know I want you to think of different situations that trigger you. It could be, you know, your child refusing to do homework. It could be your child having a tantrum at a store. It could be that your child doesn't want you to leave their bedroom at night. Because I've experienced them that trigger you. And also there's a really high chance that you might be escalating the moment.

Speaker 1:

If you have a toddler, by the way, this conversation is a little bit different. So if you have a toddler. A simple no can escalate the situation, right? So you say no, your toddler loses their mind. You lose your mind because it's the fourth time they do that, and it's only noon, and now you're escalating the situation too. So up until the age of three. That is why co-regulation is so important. Still important after, but even more important before the age of three, because your child is looking towards you for their calm. And so if you're not calm, they're not calm. And it's even more important for you to catch yourself in this, you know, cycle of escalating emotions, because if you're losing your shit, your child will not get calm.

Speaker 1:

Point final. That means what is that in English? Point like, like period that's what it means. Because you're just making things worse. You're, you're, you're, you're dysregulating your child. Again, you're not doing it on purpose, you're not doing it consciously, but the situation is triggering you. So you're getting really frustrated. And so think of these situations and how you react. Right, your child has a tantrum at the store. It's like oh, shoot, like shut up, like people are looking at us, like I don't, I don't, I don't, oh, my gosh, I'm so embarrassed. And all of your thoughts lead to you dysregulating yourself and you don't hear that your child is just saying like I'm disappointed. And so you're not helping them regulate the feeling or emotion of disappointment because you're so dysregulated that you can't think the same way, and then you're both dysregulated.

Speaker 1:

Same thing applies for the example of a nighttime. Your child doesn't want to go to bed. They want you to lie down. You don't want to lie down, you want to watch TV and take some time to relax or clean up something, whatever it is. And then they're getting upset and you're like just lie down, go to bed, stop talking, it is. And then they're getting upset and you're like just lie down, go to bed, stop talking. And then they don't feel connected to you. And so you get even more upset because now they're starting to cry and they're not relaxing and falling asleep, and the cycle goes on and on.

Speaker 1:

So what we really need to do is catch ourselves. Okay, my child is looking for connection and warmth and a feeling of safety at bedtime, but I'm making it worse because I don't want to do this. Acknowledge it, it's okay. But then notice it in the moment and say okay, I'm going to cuddle with you for 10 minutes. I can see that you want to cuddle with me, and I miss you too, but I have a few things I have to go get done. So 10 minutes when my timer goes off, then I'm going downstairs. Deal, it might work. It might not work, but at least connecting with them and noticing what they're asking for and what their needs are. You know, it's interesting because when we start to step back and learn how to do this through reflection, we start to notice little things.

Speaker 1:

So there was a parent that I was working with and they were talking about morning time and how hectic morning time was. And when we started analyzing and talking about what that morning looked like, between the time that the child woke up to leaving the door there were 30 minutes. That's not a lot of time. Children need transition time. We need transition time.

Speaker 1:

How many parents, how many of us struggle with, you know, switching hats right From working to home or stay-at-home, parent to partner, to friend or whatever it is? Well, our kids struggle with that even more. And so once we started talking about like, what does the morning look like? Well, I realized that's not enough downtime. And what was the child complaining about and crying about and getting mad about in the morning? They were looking for connection time with their parent, and so by talking about it we realized, hey, you know what, maybe we can ask or get or go gain somehow 10, 15 minutes by waking them up earlier. I know that it's not ideal sometimes, but that 10 to 15 minutes help this parent kind of slow things down just a little bit in the morning, and so it's really important for us to start stepping back as parents and we don't have to read all these parenting books and advice, get advice all the time.

Speaker 1:

I think we really need to come back to learning how to problem solve for ourselves, because nobody knows our child better than we do, and if we can learn to gain confidence, this is something that always blows my mind. So all the new parents that come into the Reflective Parent Club take the parental self-competence scale. So how would you rate your level of competence? And over 40% rate low, and so it's really important for us to remember that if we feel that we don't have the skills, that we are not competent enough, confidence goes down, and then we look towards the outside. Can somebody else help me? I can do this. I don't know how to do this, but when we actually do something and make a mistake, we realize, oh, talking to my child this way doesn't work, or doing it this way really doesn't fit with my child, let me try something else.

Speaker 1:

And so this year, especially with the podcast and all of my content, I really want to come back to how do we become more attuned with our needs, how do we become more attuned with our child's needs and how do we start to trust ourselves as parents and know that, yes, we are coming into this role without having had training like we do at work. Right, there's no six-month training or whatever it is three-month training program to then feel like, okay, I think I got this, and then we don't have the 10, 15 years of experience. But every day is a way for us to kind of get to know our child and we're learning every day and what our child needs from us today as a four-year-old is going to be very different than who they are at five years old and what they need from us at five years old. So there isn't a book for every single age, but there are ways for us to kind of come back to trusting ourselves and making mistakes, and so catching yourself and noticing certain things is one of the things I think are so important for parents. All right, that's all I had to say today. I hope it was helpful to you. I really encourage you to notice this week which situations seem to escalate when you step in and you can join our Facebook page. We have a Facebook group, the Reflective Parent, and I'm going to try to start a conversation there. I'd love to you know I don't.

Speaker 1:

For those of you listening to the podcast, I don't have contact with you and that feels like something's missing in our relationship. You, the people listening to the podcast, you guys hear more about my life than, let's say, social media, because I'm not the kind of person to jump in and say, oh, this was my day today. I went shopping and then I did that. It's not me. I'm an introvert and that feels uncomfortable to me. But so you guys are the ones that know me the most because I talk a little bit through my solo podcast episodes, but, like today, I didn't talk about anything, just the topic, but the podcast.

Speaker 1:

You, the audience, you are the ones that I have the least contact with. I don't get to DM you on social media and so come on to the Facebook group and I'll post today's podcast episode question and I want you to start noticing what triggers you, and then I want you to start applying the notice, pause then connect method so that you can find ways to do this with your child and de-escalate the situation rather than escalate Once you've got it down to. Like you know, once you've practiced this and you're like, yeah, I'm good with this, you can teach this to your kids, because the way that I'm talking to my kids about it, they don't realize that they're escalating the situation, right. So if two kids are arguing and it's like give me that. No, you give it. No, you give it. No, you give it. That's they're escalating the situation. Nobody's asking why they need it, nobody's saying what their needs are in the moment, and so it's really important for us to first learn it ourselves and then teach this to our kids, which is the entire point of Curious Neuron. I want to teach you emotion regulation skills and teach you how to model these healthy coping skills for your kids.

Speaker 1:

If you enjoy the podcast and enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share this episode. Share it with a friend. Talk about it on your Instagram stories. Tag Curious Neuron Curious underscore Neuron. Share it on Facebook anywhere you can. I'm going to be sending the episode on the newsletter, so you'll have the link. Share the newsletter with friends, share it at work, get us or help us grow this podcast, because the more we grow, the bigger the guests we can get. Some people ask for numbers number one and number two. This podcast will only continue if certain numbers keep increasing, and we've plateaued for a little bit again, and so we are going to need to prove to them that this podcast is worthy enough that people are actually sharing it. So, if you can, please share the podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and I hope you all have a beautiful and lovely week. I will see you next Monday. Bye.