Curious Neuron Podcast

How to talk to children about the Los Angeles wildfires with Dr. Tamara Soles

• Cindy Hovington, Ph.D. • Season 7 • Episode 20

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Open communication is essential for helping children process their fears and feelings regarding crises like the LA wildfires. Parents should approach conversations with empathy, reinforcing feelings of safety and community support while recognizing their own emotional well-being.

Today, I chatted with Dr. Tamara Soles to get some advice for how to speak to kids that were impacted by the fires or those that are hearing about it.

• Importance of initiating conversations about crises with children
• Assessing children's current understanding of events
• Fostering empathy through reflective questioning
• Addressing children's fears by discussing safety measures
• Balancing parental emotions with children's emotional needs
• Engaging in community service to help children process feelings
• Recognizing signs of trauma in children’s behavior
• Establishing routines to provide normalcy
• Prioritizing self-care for parents during challenging times

Here is a growing directory of 500+ providers offering pro bono services for individuals impacted by the Los Angeles wildfires:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uAMVz8TQMzShQeuEA6kmOP0jyRN7qe1Iiqb6JOLTPqg/edit?gid=303232729#gid=303232729

Helpful article in the LA Times:
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-11/kids-wildfire-losses-experts-eaton-palisades-fire


Listen to my conversation with research Dr. Susan King (from McGill University) to learn how natural disasters can impact expecting moms and their babies (and how to mitigate the stress).

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/curious-neuron-with-dr-cindy-hovington/id1440533170?i=1000502669619

Get your FREE 40-page workbook called Becoming a Reflective Parent:
 https://tremendous-hustler-7333.kit.com/reflectiveparentingworkbook

Join our membership, The Reflective Parent Club to learn how to manage your emotions and model this for your child.
https://curiousneuron.com/join-our-club/

Please leave a rating for our podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! Email me at info@curiousneuron.com and I will send you our most popular guide called Meltdown Mountain.

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https://www.facebook.com/groups/theemotionallyawareparent/


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Speaker 1:

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Kirsten On Podcast. My name is Cindy and I am your host, and today we are doing something a little bit different With everything that's going on in LA and the fires. I think that it's important for us to cover that and give everybody some guidance in terms of how to speak to your child about it, whether they were part of it, whether they have a friend that was part of it, or whether they're like us and far away from it, but still seeing it on the news or hearing about it with their friends, and so I'm really grateful that Dr Tamara Soles has joined me today. Tamara, welcome again to the CuresNorm podcast. Thank you for having me, Cindy.

Speaker 2:

I wish it was under different circumstances.

Speaker 1:

Exactly. I'm really grateful that you were okay with meeting with me at the last minute, because I'm getting messages from parents and I want to make sure that they have the right me at the last minute, because I'm getting messages from parents and I want to make sure that they have the right, not scripts, but sort of guidance in terms of the conversations to have. So we're going to try to keep it short today, so that you know, but covering everything at the same time. So how about we begin with? You know, being here in Montreal, what I'm hearing is you know kids are seeing it on the news, you know we're hearing about they're hearing about it at school, and I think what's important is there are different perspectives to this. So one of my kids, one of their questions, was fire is really dangerous and it's scary to imagine just the idea of your house and town and city burning down.

Speaker 2:

So I've tried to be mindful in terms of the images that they're seeing, because some of them, to be honest, stuck with me going to bed and, just you know, feeling sad and it's a scary thing. So how do we begin to talk about to our kids? You know, as parents, we want to protect our kids from hearing things that they can't unhear or unsee, that may impact them, you know, short-term or long-term. And yet, recognizing that many of our kids are of an age where they may be exposed to information in other ways, be it from friends or at the schoolyard or on the internet, and so we want to be the drivers of those conversations, we want to make sure that our children have opportunity to process what they're hearing and experiencing within the comfort of our relationship, and so we can do that by starting the conversations Now.

Speaker 2:

If you have a very young child, let's say you're really distant from LA and you have a very young child who is unlikely to be exposed in any way to this, we don't have to introduce that to them, but for other children, it's a good place to start with a question of I know there's been a lot on the news about what's happening in California and the fires and I'm wondering what you've heard. So starting there before we dive in, just to assess what they know and what they feel about what they've heard so far, that's a good place to start.

Speaker 1:

I like that because, again, you're not putting certain words in their mouth or questions that they might not have had but they'd never thought of. But the scary thing, it could become a scary thing for a child. So I think I agree with you in the sense that if your child is too young, we don't have to bring that into their awareness. You know, so I understand that. You know. I wonder if there are children out there also who might hear about it and you're talking about it in your house and then you feel that there's no empathy or they're like it's not affecting me, so who cares? Is that also a conversation we should have with our child in terms of well, or are we making it too much of a big thing if that happens?

Speaker 2:

That's a great question, cindy, you know. I think one of the potential benefits of exposing children to a curated amount of information about world events is that it can develop empathy and compassion, and so what we do with that, though, is critical. So how we approach that situation, there may be children who, on the surface, appear to be unsympathetic about it, which may be their own self-protective response to so we want to be careful not to just be sort of horrified, as a parent, by what seems like a lack of empathy, and just dive in, but rather use really reflective questions like what do you think it would be like to be this person? Or imagine, can you imagine what it feels like to be in this situation right now, where your school is burned down or you're not sure if your friends are okay? These are big questions, big situations, but asking reflective questions, or even asking questions about what others might feel in that situation how do you think so-and-so would feel it's really just helping to shift that perspective and to develop that empathy and compassion.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I do think it is a good time to talk about that and help them develop those skills, because some young kids might not have that developed yet. And again, it's so far away, it's not happening to me, it's not happening in my home and my city. So it's easy to feel that disconnect. And I just want to quickly go back to the images Again. The fire, the image of a fire, I think again, thinking about maybe a hurricane or tornado, we're like that can't happen here. But a fire is something that many kids can fear and I know with my kids as well it was like can this happen to us? Can our home burn down? And you know what would happen to all my things? And so they did question that. Would you know if maybe a child now had a nightmare or you know anything? But in terms of fearing the fire, what can we do with a child? You know how do we approach them if they have that new fear now and we want to help them. Kind of work on that, yes.

Speaker 2:

I think we want to acknowledge the elements of control that we have. That is the key. So, of course, unfortunately, a fire is a potential possibility for anyone. So we can start with the things that we do that keep us safe. And one of the most important things you can do in conversation with your child about this is to reassure them that you've got this, that as parents, this is our responsibility. It's our job to do everything we can to keep you safe, so that it's very clear that this isn't a worry that they need to hold on their own. That that's our job. So that's something we need to make explicit always.

Speaker 2:

But then we can talk about here's the things that we do to keep our house safe. Right, we have a fire blanket, we have fire extinguishers, we have a safety plan of what we would do and, of course, depending on the ages of your children, you can involve them in that safety planning. You can tell them that you've looked at the government recommendations about how to keep your home fire safe. So engaging them in the concrete things that you're doing to keep everyone safe is key, while also reminding them that this is very unlikely, but also reminding them that this is very unlikely and sometimes one of the challenges, especially for younger children. When they see things on the news, it's hard for them to understand that this may be devastating, but also isolated, and it feels like it could be generalized and happen at any moment. And so being able to say, yes, we take all of these steps to be prepared and I've got you, this is my job to keep you safe.

Speaker 1:

But also, we live in a place where this is why this is less likely and we do what we can, but we're also grateful to be living somewhere that's very safe like starting off with that element of control, and I think it's a good reminder for us parents too, right, in terms of any situation that happens, to kind of come back to it and take a moment to say, okay, what's under control? You know, in this situation and I love that.

Speaker 1:

So let's move on towards those who are affected and in the area. One question you know that a parent was asking is you know if they're close to the area and actually fearful right now of this extending to their city and their home, and they don't want to? Do you hide the emotion and the worry from your child? You don't want to create a sense of urgency, but you are literally worried for your home, and so how much do we hide from our child and I think that would extend into somebody who was affected right now as well Do you hide the sadness? Do you try to be resilient and show them that we're strong? What does that look like?

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's such a tight rope, I think, as a parent, because we want to both model how we navigate our emotions that are real and valid, while also holding it together enough that our children sees that their caregivers, their protectors, are still in control, and so allowing them to see your sadness is perfectly okay, understandable, even helpful at times. And expressing that and also grounding that in I am sad. I'm sad for all the myriad reasons we would be sad in this situation, but also I'm grateful. I'm grateful that we're safe, I'm grateful that you're okay.

Speaker 2:

So, having the duality of it, it really is, as I said, a tightrope, because if we only say you know what, thank goodness, we're safe, we're okay, it's just stuff right, we can invalidate the feelings of I just lost the most important toy I had or my home, my safe haven. So it's important not to veer into that toxic positivity and negate whatever feelings they may have, because that sadness is real, that fear is real and understandable. Real, that fear is real and understandable. So, validating that, modeling how we deal with it and still also showing gratitude for the things that matter to us most is, I think, where we can try to find that balance and that duality is something that we experience as well as somebody who's not part of it.

Speaker 1:

but we might have friends or people that are experiencing this, while also being grateful that we're okay and that we're not in that area. It's hard to balance that, because then you feel the guilt of thank goodness we're okay, but then I know people that are going through this. Even as an adult, that duality is really hard.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it is. It's making me tear up right now. As you know, I lived in LA for many years. We have many friends and colleagues and people we care for very deeply who are impacted significantly right now in LA and it is hard. It's hard because, of course, we also feel a sense of helplessness in a way, but it's also a reminder of how connection and compassion serve us all. So when we can reach out to friends and say listen, I'm not expecting you to respond to me right now, I'm just wanting you to know that you're in my thoughts and maybe here's something that I've done. I've donated to this organization or I've done something to show my support. It's really, really hard.

Speaker 2:

That duality is part of life, right? This dialectic element of life is that two things can be true at once, and it is the human condition of wrestling with multiple feelings. And I think in the same way, when we're trying to help our children through difficult situations, it can be helpful to ground them in solutions, and sometimes the solutions can be things that we can do to directly support a catastrophe, a crisis. Sometimes it's okay. Here's what we can do for that community. It's limited, but what can we do in our own as well. So really just bringing it back to all the ways that we can contribute to making our world, to think of, you know, any catastrophe, like you said, or even mourning somebody, a grandparent or a family member, where you're, at the same time, grateful for all the moments that you had, while you're also sad that they're.

Speaker 1:

I just feel that there's so many moments that that duality comes back. So I just want to put like a slight emphasis on it, because it's really an important one for parents to be okay with that ourselves and to allow our child to experience that duality.

Speaker 2:

Yes exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, one of the things I just also wanted to mention is obviously the only way that we can care for our children and be able to tolerate that discomfort and duality is being able to tolerate it in ourselves and care for ourselves too. So, especially in the middle all of this, just really think about what you're doing to care for yourself. How much are you exposing yourself to the media, even if you are in an affected area, being mindful of what you need to keep on, what you need to be alerted to, but also tuning out as much as you can to keep yourself from being overwhelmed as well?

Speaker 1:

So yeah, I'm really happy you said that, because I know I was talking to some friends over the weekend and we are feeling overwhelmed. You know we are picturing ourselves in that situation, saying it's so sad, it's just so sad to think of it, so we had to stop at some point. It's like, okay, I know what's happening, I'll come back to social media or news, like in a day, you know, and see where it's at, because it becomes very overwhelming and we have to be mindful of that as well for our kids. If we have the TV on and that's all there is on the news, whether it's this or any other natural catastrophe or wars that are going on, we have to be aware of how much they're consuming, because we know it affects us Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

What would you? You know there might be a child out there. I'm just hearing a lot about kids and how they're struggling and, you know, maybe there's a child out there in LA or close to LA whose house was spared. Their home is safe, their family is okay, but their school's gone and most of their friends lost their home. What should a parent or what sort of guidance maybe can you offer a parent? Maybe it's the duality, but I'm not sure. But how do you move forward with that, while the child might feel guilt that they're okay, but all their friends have lost their home. That they're okay, but all their friends have lost their home.

Speaker 2:

What can we do in terms of starting that conversation?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I was inspired by good friends of ours whose child lost their school and their teacher lost their home, and what they did as a community was mobilize for several of the teachers and students and got together and helped them move into temporary housing, helped them get what they need, get supplies.

Speaker 2:

So again, it's really coming back to the community element, it's the coming together, and that is what gives some sense of relief to the soul, if you will, when you see the people who are saying, okay, yes, maybe I am privileged or lucky or circumstantially unaffected directly in this way, but so what can I do? How can I get my hands in there to serve others? And to me, I think it's powerful what we've witnessed already from the communities affected how much they have come to support each other and how much they have grieved together, worked together, served each other. And there'll be a long time of processing and rebuilding and coming together. But seeing this in this moment, seeing the service, the acts of service and connection with each other, is really the saving grace. I think that will help that human spirit keep hopeful and optimistic and connected.

Speaker 1:

And I think that idea of that community part you know, I guess if a child is sad and feels bad, you can even draw like a picture for the firefighters, like a thank you card. You know, just the fact that you're thinking about how to help the community and support them is showing that you were spared, yes, but you know your house was spared and you were okay, but you can still feel, you know like you want to help others. I really like that aspect, but you can still feel like you want to help others. I really like that aspect. Again, any sort of now we're talking about the LA fires, but any sort of catastrophe or event within your home, your school, I think it's a nice way to think about it that way.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yes, I mean, it's devastating and yet we need to make sense of things right. And we both know that meaning making is a huge part of how we can have some post-traumatic growth right. And we both know that meaning making is a huge part of how we can have some post-traumatic growth right. Not everyone who experiences a stress or a trauma will develop trauma symptoms. Thankfully, many can grow from the experience. I wish they didn't have to, but they can. Often, when we've been able to make sense of the experience and we may not understand the causes, we may not understand the whys, but we can make sense of what it did to each of us, how it affected each of us, what we do differently, going forward or the things that gave us comfort. So meaning making together is a powerful way forward to grow and to protect our emotional well-being.

Speaker 1:

I'm so happy that you brought that up, because one of my other questions was moving forward, and I often hear this phrase it bothers me a little bit like kids are resilient. I don't know why. It's just because I feel that it kind of says like, okay, well, we've done whatever happened happened and they'll be fine in the end. But I love that you're making that connection because I do think that there's work and I think maybe there's some parents that are going to question how is this going to impact my child if there is trauma? How do I know? If there's trauma, what should I be looking for and then what sort of support? So, taking that what you just said, what should a parent be mindful of and aware of? Moving forward now as they are working on the resilience, I'd rather say it that way than saying they are resilient.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if it's just me, no, no, and I appreciate you saying that, and I think, in a way, relying on the resilience of children has the potential to negate the impact or to invalidate the feelings that they may have, and I think it also may reflect the inherent systemic biases, injustices that exist in our society, because there are many marginalized, racialized groups who are absolutely disproportionately impacted by all kinds of negative, stressful and traumatic events, and so those individuals shouldn't have to be resilient, and so I really appreciate you saying that. What we do know is that, as I said, there doesn't need to be trauma from every experience. We may be able to do some things to mitigate it. So really being attuned to any changes in your child's behavior, sleep patterns, eating, tearfulness, their mood in general and again, this would be expected. So it's not as though when we see these things that we need to panic.

Speaker 2:

As parents, we would expect that after a major event, we could see an impact on those things, but noticing them and trying to engage in conversation, as we talked about already, engage in ritual, often in times of stress, being able to just rest in our rituals, going back to whether it's saying the same thing that we say at bedtime every night, or eating a certain meal at a certain time, whatever rituals exist in our family, those provide a tremendous amount of comfort and also sort of normalcy for our children, even when everything else is abnormal.

Speaker 2:

So, tuning into those differences that we might see and attending to them without panic and worry, but really leaning into connection, as we've talked about ritual everything that we can to prioritize their well-being and to help them make sense of those things, whether it's talking about it, whether it's drawing about it, whether it's writing about it, singing about it, or for some children, they may need the support of an outside professional, or even as parents, consulting with an outside professional. So there's varying degrees, of course, but just being aware of those changes in mood, eating, sleep, interest in activities, all of those things that we need to kind of tune into as parents and then respond to accordingly.

Speaker 1:

And if a child starts to wake up in fear? Right now they might be sleeping at a hotel, at a family member's house, Maybe they're really far away and they just keep envisioning again the departure from their home, seeing the fires behind in the car and just seeing the smoke. People are departing their home and just picturing this moment of grab. Whatever you can, and, like you said, you mentioned before that my favorite toy, you know, like something as simple as that for a child. But having those images of driving away from your home. And if a child is waking up, very often with nightmares, do you just comfort and let them cry and say I'm sad too. How do you respond to that?

Speaker 2:

and let them cry and say I'm sad too. How do you respond to that?

Speaker 2:

So one of the things that I think happens for some parents sometimes is that we're so anxious ourselves understandably and rightfully about how our children are going to recover from this that we want to sort of encourage them back to normalcy really quickly. And so one of the things that I think about is that there's often disruptions in life, some of them minor, like a sickness, a cold, an ear infection, and then some of them more significant, like this. But our children tend to come back to their attachment figure in those moments right. So at bedtime. You know, nighttime is the time that is the most vulnerable for children.

Speaker 2:

It's a long stretch to be without a parent. If they're sleeping in their own room, they may need to kind of go back to whatever gives them comfort. So that might mean for some families they're co-sleeping for a little while. It might mean that your child needs you in the room next to them to fall asleep for a little while. Whatever an individual child needs, I think it's important for parents to be prepared that we need to go back to connection. We kind of have to go back to the beginning in a way, to kind of reset that safety for them to know that they're okay, and then the time will come that we can go back to whatever routine your child had, but really just allowing space and time for them to come back to that secure attachment figure in whatever way that looks like for them.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for that reminder Again. I'm glad that you said that, whether it's a small event or a big event, we kind of want to put them back into that regular pattern. You used to go to bed on your own. You never. You haven't needed me beside you in a year, and now we forget that we are that attachment figure and there's a comfort to that. So I really appreciate that reminder, even for myself. You know like it could be anything that happens where there's a shift and you notice that shift, but it kind of sometimes annoys you and you're frustrated Like we had it all figured out, you know. And so, especially with a big event like this, just being mindful, you know, for parents that are listening to say like maybe my child will need me a little bit more, and that's okay. And what's hard, though, is that if you did go through something or if you are experiencing your own loss and your own struggles, that sometimes you might not have the capacity to show up for them in a way that they need.

Speaker 2:

But that's where I think self-compassion comes in right and your needs still matter and you are dealing with it a certain way too 100%, and recognizing that capacity and that your capacity will shift under stress is so important, and that's why leaning on whatever other supports that we have as adults is key as well.

Speaker 1:

Right, I'm going to. For those listening, I'm going to also link the episode with Dr Susan King from McGill University. So she studied the ice storm that we had here and she studies hurricanes and natural disasters and the perceived stress that pregnant moms undergo. So I'm saying this out loud so that I don't forget to put it in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

I just want everybody to also have the conversation that I just had with Dr Tamara Soles, as well as the conversation with researcher Dr King, so that you can see the importance of perceived stress, not to say that it's not stressful to go through this, but, if you can, as you said, tamara, thinking about things of gratitude or how can we support the community now and working through that. Who had the same number of days where they had lost power with the storm, those who said, okay, we're going to get through this, what can I do to make this better? Or I have food, I'm fine, or they would problem solve and perceive the stress very differently, had less of an impact on their own stress and the babies as well. There are pregnant moms in LA. There are very small children and if the parent is stressed, we know that there's that trickle down effect.

Speaker 2:

So how can an adult going through this shift, the way that they're perceiving this, which is hard to do in the moment- yes, of course it is and, as we said, it's hard to do without veering into that sort of toxic positivity where we're not acknowledging the challenges that exist. But I think it does come back to the examples that you just gave, which is allowing ourselves to be reminded of the things that we're doing, that give us some sense of agency, right, so that distress often comes from a feeling of helplessness, as we talked about earlier, and so reminding ourselves, as adults, of the things that we do have control over and the things that we can do, and also allowing ourselves to not have all the answers right away, that it's going to take time, that I'll figure this out, and it'll take time. And you know, sometimes some of us often use the idea of is this something that's going to be a problem for me in five minutes, five hours, five days, five years? Something like this obviously has the potential impact long term, there's no question.

Speaker 2:

There's no question, but we will find our way forward and reminding ourselves that it will not get solved right now, the fires are not under control right now. We have to focus on the parts that we do have control over, and so just reminding ourselves to take our time to focus on what we have control over and to look to others right that this is a collective solution that will need to be found right, so we're not alone in it and it's finding that solution. And I also wanted to mention that I know there was a piece in LA Parent that had some good resources from a child psychologist and a pulmonologist from Children's Hospital in Los.

Speaker 2:

Angeles with some tips, some sort of concrete tips also, which I think was valuable for you know, thinking about both the physical and mental health impact.

Speaker 1:

So just I'll add that to the-.

Speaker 2:

That would be great. And just availing yourself of resources but also not being, you know, overwhelmed by them. Again, it's a balance right we find a few resources that resonate with us and then focus on the things that we can do.

Speaker 1:

Right, thank you. Thank you so much for taking your time and I know that this conversation will help many parents. Again, unfortunately, we had to meet under these circumstances, but I always end my conversation by saying I look forward to the next talk because you and I I just I love hearing you share your insight with us, and I know that the community appreciates it. So thank you again.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you for all you do, cindy, I appreciate it.