Curious Neuron Podcast

The Role of Community and Support in Fertility with Lauren Enright

• Cindy Hovington, Ph.D. • Season 7 • Episode 11

Share episode

Send us a text

In this conversation, Cindy and Lauren discuss the multifaceted role of a fertility coach, emphasizing a holistic approach that integrates emotional and physical well-being. They explore the significant stress associated with fertility journeys, the impact of societal expectations, and the importance of community support. Lauren shares insights on emotional processing, the necessity of allowing oneself to feel pain, and the value of listening and holding space for those experiencing fertility challenges.

They discuss the emotional burden of keeping secrets, the need for mental health support in fertility treatments, and the integration of holistic approaches with traditional medicine. The dialogue highlights the significance of mind-body programs and the power of thoughts in emotional well-being, offering practical advice for individuals navigating fertility challenges.

Watch it on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/9NZ6n6efahQ

Learn more with Lauren:
https://www.breathewithlauren.com/

https://www.facebook.com/breathewithlauren/

https://www.instagram.com/breathewithlauren

Sign up for Lauren's Mind-Body Fertility toolkit:
https://breathewithlauren.mykajabi.com/fertility-toolbox

Sources:
Emotional stress and reproduction: what do fertility patients believe?

Get your FREE 40-page workbook called Becoming a Reflective Parent:
 https://tremendous-hustler-7333.kit.com/reflectiveparentingworkbook

Join our membership, The Reflective Parent Club to learn how to manage your emotions and model this for your child.
https://curiousneuron.com/join-our-club/

Please leave a rating for our podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! Email me at info@curiousneuron.com and I will send you our most popular guide called Meltdown Mountain.

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/curious_neuron/

Facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/theemotionallyawareparent/


THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS! Get some discounts using the links below
Thank you to our main supporters the Tanenbaum Open Science Institute at The Neuro and the McConnell Foundation.

  1. BetterHelp is the world’s largest therapy service, and it’s 100% online. Click the link below to get 15% off the first month of therapy http://www.betterhelp.com/curiousneuron
Speaker 1:

Hello, my dear friend, welcome back to another episode of the Curious Neuron podcast. My name is Cindy Hevington and I am your host. Today we are talking about fertility and struggles that a couple might have. So you know that Curious Neuron focuses on helping parents and their well-being and understanding their emotions so that they could, you know, support their own mental health and well-being but also model healthy emotional coping skills for their kids. And when it comes to an added stress on our lives, trying to become a parent could be one of them. Or even if you already have one child, there could be reasons that the second child or trying to have a second child can be causing you a lot of stress due to fertility issues. And so I brought in Lauren, because I thought that she'd be great at having this conversation from a holistic perspective and also a scientific perspective, and so I hope that this conversation is one that can support not just you, but if you know somebody who's struggling, perhaps you can send them this episode as a way to have a conversation with them and support them and let them know that they are not alone. Have a conversation with them and support them and let them know that they are not alone. Before we move on to this conversation, I'd like to thank the Tannenbaum Open Science Institute, as well as the McConnell Foundation for supporting the Curious Around podcast. Without these two organizations, this podcast would not be possible, and without you, this podcast would not be possible. So please take a moment If you have been enjoying the podcast or are enjoying, please take a moment if you have been enjoying the podcast or are enjoying, please take a very quick moment to at least just rate the podcast.

Speaker 1:

Those ratings matter and the review that you leave. If you have a few extra minutes to write a quick review, whether it's on spotify or on apple podcasts, it makes a really big difference, because these are the metrics that allows the podcast to continue, and so if you also have a little extra time, then you could perhaps post it on Facebook. Post the episode on Facebook, share it, share it on social media, tag us on Instagram at Curious underscore Neuron or send it out by email. If you are part of the newsletter, it will be in the email. You can just forward that email to friends and coworkers and families If you work at schools. Help us get the word out if you are enjoying the podcast, because every single download makes a difference and allows us to get the support to continue. The support that I receive is not for me, it's truly to have the team that is needed in order to keep the podcast going, so for that I am truly grateful needed in order to keep the podcast going, so for that I am truly grateful.

Speaker 1:

I met today's guest quite a few years ago actually about 10 years ago, when I was giving a talk or I was part of this panel along with Lauren, where we spoke about jobs that we had gone outside of research. Even if we had a degree, a master's or a PhD, we still kind of ventured off and away from academia, and so we were there to talk about what the work that we were doing. I've always respected her work and followed her throughout her journey and what she's been doing with her company, breathe, with Lauren. She now she's a birth doula and she has services. She is also a fertility coach and I think that this aspect is interesting and something that people need to hear more about, which is why I brought her here. Sometimes during our journey, we are trying to conceive and that adds a lot of stress and there aren't enough resources, I believe, for these parents or people trying to become parents, resources, I believe, for these parents or people trying to become parents, and we need to build a space where they feel safe to speak, where they feel safe to share their experiences. Because the way that I like to think about it is you know, when it comes to stress, especially around fertility, it's almost like we're blowing into a balloon and we keep blowing into it and blowing into it and it gets bigger and bigger and it's a pressure internally. We need to create a safe space for these people to be able to speak about it, to be able to share their experiences, and Lauren has been creating this for couples within her practice, so there's a membership where you can join her and talk with other parents and also receive her guidance through her work and her expertise around mindfulness and yoga and meditation, and so it brings a really interesting aspect that I know is covered and supported by research, especially the mindfulness aspect, to it. Lauren Enright is a holistic fertility coach, birth doula and a pre postnatal yoga expert. I love not only the passion that she has for supporting parents, but her values and her mission, where she really believes that birth happens best when the birthing person feels safe and secure and supported, and this is what she brings to the work that she does, the messages that she has through her content and her website and her services. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Lauren Enright. I'm all focused on fertility and what a fertility coach is. I'll see you on the other side.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back everyone to the Curious Around podcast and, as promised, I'm here with Lauren. Lauren, welcome to the podcast. Hi, cindy, I'm so happy that we're doing this. You know I've been following you for a while. We had met quite a few years ago now Well, not quite a few years, but you know like a decade.

Speaker 2:

I actually said that this morning in my Instagram stories. I was like we go way back right Like a time before kids, at that neuroscience conference that we had met at.

Speaker 1:

Exactly Fair enough to say it's been a while. Time passes by too fast, but I've been following you and I love the work that you're doing and I just thought it was so important for us to share this with our audience and to learn a little bit more about what you do. So you do a lot. Actually. You wear quite a few hats. In addition to being a doula and a yoga expert, you are a fertility coach as well. Can you explain a little bit in terms of what brought you there in your journey and what is a fertility coach?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I am a fertility coach. I'd say most fertility coaches are in the business of helping women get and stay pregnant, so that's absolutely what I am doing. But I think what differentiates fertility coaches is the approach that they use, and so my approach is a holistic approach, and it's a holistic approach which integrates mindset work with nervous system regulation, with nervous system regulation and what I call a body-based approach to emotional processing. So rather than trying to work with emotions kind of with cognition and the brain and logic that we're really doing somatic work. So soma means body in Greek, and we're actually going into the body to see what those emotions feel like.

Speaker 1:

I'm so glad that you do that part and that the emotion regulation piece and the system regulation piece is there, because you know we talk about emotions and we don't think about how it impacts our body and that there is this you know the somatic aspect to it and there is this nervous system regulation aspect to it and I'm glad that you do this holistic approach. So you are also a doula, so you get to see, you know people that are very excited, expecting and, and you know in that journey, but then there's a stress that comes with, you know, trying and and it's not working. And you know couples that I've spoken with talk about the not just the emotional impact but the stress aspect to it. What have you seen in your work? And I'd love to learn more about what that looks like, everything you just described. Now, how do you support that couple?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So in terms of the stress that comes with the fertility journey, it is huge, and I think a big aspect of why it is so stressful is this piece of uncertainty. So we, as a human species, I think we really like to know answers, we like to have answers, we like to know why. I think a lot of us who are especially brought up in a traditional education system or who wear our professional hats, we play roles where we like to problem solve. We've been taught to problem solve from this very like logical point of view, and when it comes to fertility, there are a lot of things that you know we sometimes can't have answers to, and so we seek those answers.

Speaker 2:

And you know, today we are blessed to have so access to so much information, and so what I see is that my clients you know they, of course, as we most do, and you know, I know your audience is largely you cater a lot to parents and you know I'm a parent and I was a new parent 10 years ago and I still do work with new parents. And you know a new parent 10 years ago and I still do work with new parents, and you know, whenever we are looking, we have a problem and we're looking for answers. What do we do? We turn to Google we turn to our experts on Instagram, right.

Speaker 2:

And so when it comes to fertility, and I would even say when it comes to parenting, right, like there are so many different approaches and there are so many different schools of thought, and what I find is that a big part of the struggle and the frustration and the stress comes from just like not knowing like what to believe, not knowing even what the problem is, right. So there's a lot of people who you know after, let's say, a year of trying, and this is what I would always recommend is, you know, around that 12 month mark, like you know, if you are on a fertility journey and you are trying to conceive, you know, I always recommend, like, give yourself at least 18 months. Now, this is the recommendation for if you're under 35. If you're looking at the literature, they say if you're over 35, then we actually should be after six months of trying. If you're not pregnant yet, then we're going to start to seek, you know, consultation with a doctor to do some testing, to see if there's something we can find.

Speaker 2:

But, you know, I like to say, like, at least 12 months, no matter what your age is, because I find once we start putting that timeline on things, it starts to get really, really stressful, even more stressful of like oh my God, I only have six months. This needs to happen in six months, right and right away. That upregulates the nervous system because we start to go into like time scarcity, right? So, in any case, you know, once people do and if they do go to get testing done, a lot of the time it comes back saying everything's fine, right, there's nothing quote unquote wrong with you, right? Which is what we call in medicine. We call that unexplained, unexplained infertility, and so I think that is what's super hard and that leads to even more stress of like okay, well, if like nothing is wrong with me, then like, why is this not happening?

Speaker 1:

Is there an impact of social media or society in the sense that they and we all make it seem like you blink and it happens right like I've heard this from from people that where they feel the pressure? I'm so glad that you mentioned timeline because you know we can have certain expectations if we're trying for the first time, or even sometimes with our second or third or whatever, it is right, it's not going to be the same, um, but these expectations that we have that are because of society and social media. Do you hear that from the parents you work with?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a thousand percent, and I believe a lot of our pain and suffering as humans is related to what our expectations are right. And like when our lived experience doesn't meet what our expectation is. That's when we suffer and so, yeah, you know, I think a lot of people go into the journey and you know, I see both sides. I see some people starting to try to get pregnant with like a lot of hope really, and being strong in their belief that, yeah, this is going to happen, you know.

Speaker 2:

and then when it, month after month, you know they get their period and it's not happening, that's when they start to question it. Then I also see people who approach the journey already with fear and already with doubt for one reason or another. But what is hard for sure is that you know, once you do start trying, it's just, you know. I often use this example and I'll relate it back. But, like I remember when I was pregnant and I was shopping for, you know, like my stroller, I had never seen a stroller on the street until I become pregnant and started, right.

Speaker 2:

And so it's like, when you have this bias, that you don't notice things in your environment, but then, once you actually become like, you start to think about them, then you start to notice it everywhere around you, Right? So maybe you are not trying to get pregnant, so you don't notice pregnant everywhere around you, right? So maybe you are, you know, not trying to get pregnant, so you don't notice pregnant people around you. But now that you're trying to get pregnant, that's all you see. And then it just seems to be that, like, that's all you hear, like this person and that person, right, and then. So of course that is super hard, because then it just feels like, oh well, it's happening for everybody except for me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and how do you support these parents? You know, I think there's a mindset aspect to that that I'd love to get into. But you know, somebody who's going through this might say well, what can I possibly do? Like what, what, what is the work that I'm going to be doing that's going to lower the stress? It's not. We're not fixing anything, we're not solving any problem. In that moment. I'm not pregnant, right Like, I'm still trying. What impact does the work you do have on somebody who is trying?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I like to see the work that I do with people.

Speaker 2:

as you know, it's not only leading to them you know, eventually getting and staying pregnant, but also something that helps for the longterm, and that's why I really see this work. It's beyond, I would almost say essential, like essential life skills for the motherhood, the parenting journey. And, you know, in terms of the mindset shift, you know, of course, that there it is, it's so challenging and I don't ever want to undermine that right. But I do also see and like you had asked a question when I was reading about blame of like, often, like we put this blame on ourselves, right, and so, you know, while of course I understand that and you know, I think it's important to allow ourselves to feel however we're feeling. So, if it's blame, if it's guilt, whatever it might be, it's sadness, it's grief, right, it's not about rejecting that and pushing it away.

Speaker 2:

And there needs to be a balanced approach. We need to both be able to allow ourselves to feel what we're feeling, but and at the same time, you know, when we're ready, like, move past it. Right, because if we stay stuck in it, then that's not going to serve us either, right, and then that's a little bit tricky because that's going to be a little bit different for everyone. That timeline of like, well, how long do I allow myself to grieve? Um, you know.

Speaker 2:

But so can we start to shift that blame, the, the, the grief that we're feeling, into like an openness of curiosity of like, okay, like what? What is the opportunity here? Like, what can I learn from this experience? And you know what are some things, because what I see often is that people are not getting pregnant, because I like to try to see it like a greater reason of like, well, this is not, maybe, an ideal environment to be bringing a child into. Right, and that's a hard truth sometimes to admit to ourselves, right, but, like we, it really asks us to take a hard look at the way we're living and like is the lifestyle that we're living like a lifestyle that is actually conducive to bringing a child into the?

Speaker 1:

world. You know I've, from friends that I've spoken with and you know, heard about their journey or their friend's journey. The hard part of sitting with that emotion which I do believe is very important as well is sitting with that emotion. Yeah Right, you're navigating a world where you're just constantly reminded that everybody else might be, you know, expecting, and then you're in that position where you know you're trying and nothing's working. And maybe your fertility journey has been a year now or even more, and there has been nothing that has come out of it. And you've seen doctors, and so there's this sort of weight. So while you're trying to sit with the emotion, you're also being exposed to, like reminders that you are struggling and other people are not.

Speaker 1:

I, you know. I can't imagine how hard this is, but what can you know? We talked about mindfulness last time we spoke and all of these techniques that you're using. Can you talk a little bit in terms of, like, how that can help in the moment, in terms of sitting with the emotions and and what that might look like for a parent who's listening?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you know, just listening to what you said, I was just. I've been doing this, this work, supporting women on their fertility journeys, for six years now, and it is, it is just. It is so hard, yeah, and this is it is. How can we help ourselves in the hard? And it's never taking away the hard, but again it's, it's always.

Speaker 2:

You know, and I think for a while, when I first started doing this work, I kind of shied away a little bit from trying to feel like you're trying to be like overly inspirational and enthusiastic, you know, because I didn't want that to again, like you know, be like for people to think that I was trying to undermine their pain, and it's right, but that's it has to be like a both situation of like yes, we need to honor the challenge and pain and we really need to truly see that in ourselves.

Speaker 2:

But then also, you know, something that is really helpful for the women I support and the couples I support is community, is that like there's so much isolation in this experience and we feel so alone in the experience and there's also a lot of shame, and then what happens is that the shame causes us not to talk about it. And then when we don't talk about it, then we feel more alone, more isolated, right, and so I, for the past six years, have had support groups. I right now have an online community where women can come. I mean, I am teaching fertility, yoga and meditation, but beyond those practices, it's meant to be a support group where people can come and, you know, even if you're not talking to the other people in the group, you like start to see faces and you're like, oh, this person, they're like me, they're like a human being.

Speaker 2:

And oh, wow, and you know, and then once a month we have a monthly call where people come and we'll talk and we start to open up a little bit about our story and about the struggle and then we start to see that, okay, maybe you know, we're not alone. There's actually a lot of other people that are going through this and I think that needs to happen, like you know, I think, before we can move into the positivity and the shame. And you know, all of those maybe you know, quote unquote, negative. I don't like to label emotions as negative, but the heavier emotions, right, the more uncomfortable ones, right. Well, you know, can we heal from those and then from that, say, and can we find acceptance. So that's something also that I teach and educate. Is, you know, and this, this, this culture of toxic positivity? It's?

Speaker 2:

like we can't go into positivity before we've accepted, and the you know, whatever it is that we're feeling and the difficulty and then the discomfort of what it is that we're feeling Right. So that has to happen first before we can then move into this openness of okay, even though it hasn't happened, even though this is hard, even though whatever you know my journey has been, that doesn't mean that it's never going to happen. And actually there's things that I can do to empower myself, you know, to actually make changes in my life that ultimately, are going to serve me and my future family.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for bringing up the toxic positivity part, because this is something that I know. Parents have told me that they are struggling and then what they hear from family and friends is it'll happen, don't worry, just be positive and everything will be okay. And that's, you know, very maddening and frustrating for them because they are not. It's. It's almost like saying that doesn't give them the space to feel angry and right Is it? Is it is? Is that my mind? That's my understanding? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

So you know you had asked the question how can family and friends support someone experiencing fertility struggles? And so my big answer, if there's, you know, your listeners are, you know, have a friend, a loved one, a family member that is going through this is, you know, we need to be, we need to practice the art of listening, okay, and in, in art, in the doula world, and we call this the art of holding space. And to hold space, I like the visual, I'm a visual learner, you know, and I just think of like okay, so, if you like, if you were literally to be holding space, you're holding air. What are you doing? It's like you're doing nothing, but you are doing something because you're being an active listener, right, and so we need to allow people to express themselves without judge. And then on the other side is on the receiving end. We are not judging, we're not projecting, we are not offering unsolicited advice. We are simply listening with love, with compassion. We're making them feel validated in their pain.

Speaker 2:

We're saying things like oh, that must be so hard, right. And even if you don't, if you can't relate because you haven't experienced it, like I personally haven't experienced fertility struggles, but I can still do this work because I can hold space, I can validate people's emotions, I can see them in their pain and their struggles, you know. So that's the work. Often, you know, and my clients when they, you know, say these things like, oh, like you know, so-and-so said this to me and I always come back to like we have to understand that. You know everybody. One of my philosophies in life is like everybody's doing the best they can with the resources they have. So you know people, of course, like they mean well when they say these things. But I think we just need to help educate people on you know how to hold space in a different way.

Speaker 1:

And holding space on its own is something that many people struggle with Because it's uncomfortable. Exactly yes, and we want to fix things right away. Right, we want to. I want to fix you. I want you to be happy. I'm not comfortable with you being sad right now, and so we're going to move towards the happiness as fast as we can. Right, and that's what happens, and I think you know, I could appreciate that. You said like it's coming from a good place, like I think people just don't know how to do that. In general, it's you know, whether it's a you. You open up about a family member that's struggling with their health, or you know somebody passes away. I know that those moments are all very uncomfortable moments for the other people and it's the holding space piece that's very hard, that silence. I think that's uncomfortable, but that's what they need. Yeah, I really appreciate that you brought that up.

Speaker 1:

I'm thinking of couples that are going through this. Sometimes it's personal information and there might be a shame around that. We spoke about that really briefly. It could be coming from the mom or the dad or one of the parents that are just saying I don't want this to come out, I don't want people to know about our struggles. This is our personal information and then, knowing the society we live in, like grandparents, great-grandparents, would be like, hey, you've been married for five years, where's that baby? So how can we the listeners, listeners and how can we support that?

Speaker 1:

Maybe somebody is listening to this and going through that and saying you know, I haven't spoken to anybody about this and you spoke about the isolation piece. There's an isolation to it if we don't talk about it, and that's why I appreciate that you also have this community piece, because I think that is so important for mental health and for any struggle that we're going through. But if a couple's listening to this and saying, yeah, we really haven't told anybody about this, have you heard people talk about this within your groups and what is some advice that we can share with them?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is truly hard because, I see again, it's always I see things from both sides, right, and I completely understand and empathize with, you know, not wanting to disclose this information. Especially a lot of the women I work with it's a bit tricky in their work scenario. I have some people that tell me that they work in a very male dominated environment where they just don't feel safe to disclose the information they're also concerned about, you know, maybe their role at their company or that it might be impacted, right? However, at the same time, especially if somebody is going to be undergoing fertility treatments often fertility treatments they require so many appointments that it's almost like having a second full-time job, and so people have to miss a lot of work. Then it feels like they're living a lie because they can't say the true reason for why they're missing work, and then this just adds a layer of isolation and of shame, right?

Speaker 2:

So what I like to recommend and as much as it can feel really hard is is there one person right? Because often I think we see things a lot of us from this like all or nothing or black or white, thinking of like, oh, if I say this to one person, and like the whole workplace is going to know about it, right. Same thing if I tell my one family member, well then, my whole family is going to know about it, right. But that I believe that that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

Speaker 2:

And that's also a little bit of like fear-based thinking, you know. So I really believe that there's a way to say things and and and. To be really honest. I know it's, it's so hard to allow ourselves to be vulnerable, but if we can be honest and be like you know, and just like a really heart to heart conversation of that one person in your workplace that makes you feel safe and be like hey, this is what I'm going through right now. I really don't want everybody in the workplace to know about this, you know. This I need to tell you because I have to be missing work and I don't want to be lying, you know. But please, like, this is between you and I, right, and I'm not usually, you know, in the business of telling people to promote, like you know, secrets. But I think in this case it's not like a secret, it's just more of like how can you make me feel safe in my workplace?

Speaker 1:

Right, right. And so what I'm hearing is you know it's okay to say you're allowed to have your personal information. You don't have to share this with the world, but have that one person that you feel safe with to at least say that it must feel good to at least open up and say look, it's another doctor's appointment. I'm sorry, I have a lot of them. I'm going to be saying something different to our team, but I just need you to know, like this is what I'm going through, and they don't need to know the details. But just opening up a little bit I'm assuming is also from my understanding would be good for our mental health, because the more we hold in, the more lies we're holding in, the more it's heavy.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, absolutely. It's heavy to hold those secrets and again I really again believe in human good and these stories that we're telling ourself about what's going to happen when we tell that one person. I often believe that those don't come true and that when we can say it in that open, honest way to that one safe person, that they're going to meet us in a way that maybe we hadn't imagined and we're going to have the experience of like, oh my God, I feel so much better now.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, you know this part makes me think of an article that I was telling you about, so I was reading this paper. It's a 2022 paper. I'll put in the show notes for everybody listening but they were saying that prior to 1980, infertility was thought of as being caused by a woman's psychological distress, and so the blame was entirely placed on the woman before 1980. That wasn't long ago, right, like I couldn't believe that that's what the and they were saying how, still today, in 2020, well, this is 2022. So, still today, that they feel that the team that is, you know, these fertility teams they are not including mental health professionals in the way that they should, so it's still being treated. It's being treated as a physical thing, when there's a very huge mental aspect to this, which is why I appreciate the work that you're doing and I think it's so important, which is why you're here. Can you speak to that? Like? I mean, ignoring the mental health aspect of this, there's huge consequence that's going to impact the woman and the mom and the dad longer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. And you know I like to see and absolutely we're not doing enough of this, but I am seeing some positive things in the space and I find often I see other countries that are kind of groundbreakers right In terms of this alternative more.

Speaker 2:

I mean it's alternative and scare quotes, but I think it's becoming less alternative. But this, this concept of holistic health, you know, or like mind body medicine, like I actually had a discovery call with an anesthesiologist this week, you know, and she was like I get it like she's going through fertility problems and she understands the importance of, you know, working on her mental health and her mindset and trying to overcome the challenge. So I do see positive things happening, but you know, it's it's. It's unfortunate, though that we're at this place where it's kind of like Western. Sometimes I feel like we're. It's not a battle, but it's like either Western medicine or, you know, holistic medicine right, like one or the other.

Speaker 2:

Yes, right, and so like, how can we integrate these two? Right, and there are studies that show that mind body programs that when somebody is trying to conceive and they do a mind, a six, as little as a six week mind body program, that this mind body program can lead to success rates of between 42 and 56% Okay, so, and then that's compared to IDF and IUI, right, which, depending on a lot of different factors, can have like as low success rate as like eight to 10% sometimes, right. So it's like, and we know this, we know that these mind body programs can definitely help increase the efficacy of fertility treatments. So it's like so why are we not using them? And I mean, I think this, you know there's, it's rooted in, I mean at least here where we live in Quebec, right, it's rooted in politics and in money, and I mean there's so much. But, yes, we need to be working towards a more integrated, holistic approach, where I am not anti-Western medicine, I am not.

Speaker 2:

Ivf is very, very invasive. I'm not against fertility treatments. I work with a lot of same-sex couples who have to use fertility treatments in order to get pregnant, right, so it is wonderful that we have this. I have a lot of clients who use donor eggs and are able to get pregnant with donor eggs right, so the fact that we have these tools at our disposal is incredible. However, I'm a big advocate of can we start with holistic means before we go the more invasive route, because there's also a lot of side effects and consequences to these fertility procedures, with all the hormones that we need to inject in our body.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, and that was. I'll put that in the show notes as well, but I had a conversation with Tara Shores. She talks about that in her book. Right, and just showing up to work and not feeling well and the physical consequences of going through these treatments I know are very heavy. I want to, as we're nearing the end of our conversation, I think maybe there might be people who are hearing you know this mind body program and maybe are still not sure what does that mean and what does holistic mean? And if I want to join this, what am I going to be doing? So can we just talk a little bit more about the details of that, like what somebody can expect.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think that is now going to be my work for the next few years is like really helping people to understand that, because, you know, when you're in it, it's just like, oh, like this is what it is.

Speaker 2:

It just makes sense. But I think I constantly need to be reminded that this is new for a large part of the world. When we talk about mind by because I mean, I've been in this world, you know of mind, body work, like having studied meditation and yoga for the past 15 years like this is just part of the fabric of my life. But you know, it's the idea that we're going beyond the physical body, right? And so when we're talking about the mind, we're looking into, like what are the thoughts that we are thinking, what are the words that we are saying to ourselves at any given moment of the day, and I think that is, I think, pretty easy for anybody to understand, because I think we are all aware of the fact, and I think that is, I think, pretty easy for anybody to understand, because I think we are all aware of the fact that we have conversations with ourselves.

Speaker 2:

And they're not always pretty, yeah, absolutely. But then you know, often, like you know, when this is new, it's kind of like, it's almost like we don't even have that awareness that we have this internal voice, you know.

Speaker 2:

And so this is what the practice of meditation and then mindfulness, and, you know, maybe on like another show, we can get into the difference between mindfulness and meditation, because we don't have that time for that now, you know. But, like, when we start to develop this awareness of, oh, I'm actually talking to myself a whole lot more than I think I'm actually living in this future, like this some made up scenario in the future rather than in the here and now of the present moment, way more than I think I'm actually living in the past, of all of these things that had happened. And I said right. So when we start to bring awareness to these things, right, we can start to realize that, oh, the way we're talking to ourselves is actually not serving us. And then, when I say serving us, it's just like well, you know, are you saying, like, are you beating yourself up? Coming back to the emotional piece of like, are you, are you shaming yourself? Often we do, by the way we talk to ourselves in our head, right, and then? So then it's like okay, so once we develop the awareness of how we're doing this, also how we're breathing, when we're talking about nervous system regulation, how we're doing this, also how we're breathing.

Speaker 2:

When we're talking about nervous system regulation, a lot of my clients start to develop the awareness that they can't feel their breath coming down to their lower abdomen, that they really feel their breath constricted in the area of their chest or their throat. I often, when we're doing breath work, I will, you know, count the breath and we try to get to a point where we're inhaling, to a point of, you know, like a count of at least four, and a lot of people have a hard time doing that, and so we start to bring awareness to oh, I didn't even realize I was holding my breath. When we're breathing in an irregular way, when we're holding our breath, this is often a sign that our nervous system is deregulated right, or that we're very much in this activation stress response, and so this is why, you know, just changing the way we breathe is such a huge, powerful tool to help us regulate our stress but also, to, you know, help overcome fertility challenges.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for painting that picture, because I do think that many people will keep hearing mind-body and keep hearing holistic, and I think it's still something that we're learning about as a society. So it's good to hear that. And you know, the power of our thoughts is is just something that we don't talk about enough. We know about it, we. We know there's research around it, but how one thought can lead to an emotion and how that emotion that's lingering throughout the day, even as a parent, leads to leads to you yelling at your child and you're like, oh, it wasn't that bad, why did I just lose it? I went from zero to 100. And I always tell parents yes, it felt like you went from zero to 100, but the one to 99 was there. You just weren't aware of it. It happened at some point during the day.

Speaker 1:

And so I think, when we develop that awareness of what do I need right now, how am I feeling? Noticing that shallow breath, noticing that we're holding our breath right. These are all parts of, you know, our emotional health and well-being and even emotional intelligence, and so I think it's so important that you're doing that work with people especially that are going through a really rough time and difficult part of their life. Because, yeah, all of that really impacts other things. Right, we could be going through fertility struggles, and it's going to impact how we're concentrating at work, and so the A thousand percent Right, and so noticing that and realizing the impact it's having is the first step, and then doing the work that you're talking about, I think, is just, it should be part of all of everybody's journey, even parents, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Those skills, like you said, and this is you know again why I, the women I work with when they're on the other side of their journey and even actually I'm thinking of one client who's still not pregnant to this day, but she's worked with me for a few years and gone through my F from within program and she now has started giving talks to the community of her own of of of to empower women and to inspire them that, like her, what was such a pain and struggle of her fertility journey has now turned into a gift, even though she's still not pregnant, right.

Speaker 2:

And she can now see it in that way, because she's learned all these skills and and she's she can see it through that lens of this has been a gift, because now I've made so many changes in my life and I just like I'm so much happier of a person right now, even though I don't have my baby yet Right, right, thank you for sharing that experience.

Speaker 1:

I know that somebody listening to this and probably struggling themselves there might not be a light for them, right, like saying, like how, how can I see that positive aspect to it? And it's not necessarily saying that you will get there now, but trying to find ways, like you said, to sit with the emotion first and then eventually, when you're ready which I love that you said that you will move past or work with it. Right, work with the emotions that are there. Thank you. Everything that you shared, I think, is just so important for parents that are listening. What I guess to close the conversation what advice do you have for parents that are listening to this in terms of, maybe, what the next steps are if they haven't thought about mind-body work, and then how can they reach you? And I'll make sure that everything is in the show notes as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so what I did this spring was I put together a free resource which I call my Mind Body Fertility Toolkit, and so it's basically a sample of the tools that I teach and that I offer that are highly effective when practiced regularly, regularly, right, and I think that's really important to mention because you know somebody may, you know, give yoga or meditation a try once or twice, decide they don't really love it or maybe that it didn't work, you know.

Speaker 2:

But these tools really become effective, of course, when we practice them with consistency. But to help people just get a little bit of a feel, a taste of what it is, in the toolkit I have two fertility yoga practices, I have two breathing exercises and I have two guided meditations for fertility. And then, beyond just the experience of it, what I also have is explanations, because of course I come from this science background and I know that you know, most people are going to be more open to something when they kind of can have that cognitive like, understanding of like why this is something I actually should take the time to do. So I also give those explanations of why these tools are effective. So that's a free resource. It's actually like a course, right, so you can sign up for it, and then you get access to all of those practices.

Speaker 1:

Perfect, I, I, I'm going to put that link in in the show notes, so I guess somebody who's listening to this at this point, that would be a starting point. Get the toolkit you know. Start with the first steps in terms of getting to know what that looks like, this mind body program for you and getting a bit of a snippet of it, right, um and and then, if they have any questions, do you?

Speaker 2:

have a social media account that they can learn more from you. Yes, yes, so I have two accounts. I know that sometimes feels complicated, but I am at breathe breathe with Lauren, so that's my main Instagram account, but then I recently started a second account at fertileertile From Within, specifically for people that are looking for fertility support, and I am active on both. I also have my website, which is breathewithlaurencom, and there's quite a lot on my website. It describes my different programs. I do case studies, which I think is really important. So when people work with me, after they're done working with me, I asked them to fill out some questions and on my website I have different case studies of people that have gone through my it's called my fertile from within program, which is that holistic program, and yeah, so you can just kind of see what it's like to work with me and what it's like to go through my program some results that you can expect.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. I you know I don't often give the space for somebody to share all their information, but I think the scarcity of content and resources for people that are going through these fertility struggles it's just it shouldn't be. They should have access to a lot more, and so I wanted to make sure that you had that space, because it's really important work. So thank, cindy, I appreciate it.

Speaker 2:

And you know of course this is my. You know I didn't get too much in at the beginning. You asked me like how I came to this work and I didn't get too much into that.

Speaker 2:

I know now's not the time with it, but I hope you can and your listeners can just get the sense of like this is really for me like heart based work.

Speaker 2:

I really just just came about this because I've been following my heart, like I was a high school science teacher, you know, and then from that like went on to become a birth doula and teaching yoga and really now I'm making this shift towards making my fertility coaching my full-time work, because there is just such a need for it and I'm just really, really passionate about it.

Speaker 2:

And you know, the one thing that I would just love to, like anybody who's on a journey I just love to leave them with, with like don't lose hope. Don't lose hope, but also, you know it's just just hope. And like maybe you know, like the typical expression, like I'm just gonna hope and pray or just stay positive, like just staying positive, that also is not effective, so don't lose hope. But also like sit with yourself and be like okay, like what do I really need here? Because you know there are resources out there. You know a lot of those just free kind of Facebook support groups I don't usually recommend those because they're not regulated. You know there's there are some great free groups out there, but you know you get what you pay for Right, and so when you're looking for support, sometimes you really do need someone to moderate that.

Speaker 1:

Exactly. Yeah, I agree. Thank you for the work that you do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you're welcome.

Speaker 1:

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Lauren. Anything that we mentioned in terms of the work, her work and research will be found in the show notes. You can also get a free PDF, a parental well-being guide, in the show notes, as well as a link to join the Reflective Parent Club which is the Curious Drone membership and get two weeks free to try it out and see if you like it and learn how to regulate your emotions and learn how to support your child in doing the same. I will see you next week on Monday. Have a nice week, bye.