Curious Neuron

Were you ever told "You need to discipline your child right now!"?

• Cindy Hovington, Ph.D. • Season 7 • Episode 6

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In this episode of the Curious Neuron podcast, host Cindy Hovington engages in a heartfelt conversation with Miranda, a mom of 3, about the complexities of parenting. They explore the evolution of parenting styles, particularly the shift towards more conscious and respectful approaches. 

Miranda shares her personal journey of navigating discipline, understanding developmental appropriateness, and the importance of emotional intelligence in parenting. 

The discussion highlights the challenges of co-regulation, the need for community support, and the significance of respect in parent-child relationships. They also offer valuable advice for new and expecting parents, emphasizing the importance of knowledge, practice, and the role of apologies in fostering healthy relationships with children.

Other episodes you might enjoy:

  1. https://www.buzzsprout.com/1255388/episodes/15712010
  2. Building confidence as a parent: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1255388/episodes/15420209
  3. Understanding and Addressing Child Deception with Dr. Victoria Talwar https://www.buzzsprout.com/1255388/episodes/15338702

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Speaker 1:

Hello, my dear friend, welcome to the Curious Neuron podcast. My name is Cindy Huffington and I am your host. I am a mom of three from Montreal, canada, and have a doctorate degree in neuroscience. My goal with Curious Neuron is to bring you science that is focused on your well-being, emotional intelligence, so that you could model very healthy emotion regulation skills for your child and, most importantly, effective parenting practices that you can apply in your home. Everything is centered around the science of emotional intelligence and well-being, so that you can focus on yourself and nurture your needs as a parent, because more than knowing what to say to our kids, more than that is the importance of us being able to nurture our needs. In that moment when our child is losing it, we need to know. It's not just about controlling our own emotions, but nurturing our needs, because our needs still matter when we become a parent. So if you are new here, welcome.

Speaker 1:

We are going to try something a little different. Today I'm having a conversation with a parent because sometimes, as a parent, we need more than just listening to experts. There's an education piece which is really important, obviously, to parenting. However, there's also a point that we need to feel like what we're doing or what we experienced is something that other people are experiencing or doing, and so that feeling of not being alone and not being the only one is also really important for our well-being. So I'm going to try to bring in conversations with parents. If you are a parent that has a story to tell and a conversation that you think needs to be had on the podcast, please send me an email at info at curiousneuroncom. The email is below in the show notes because I want you to have this space to talk about it and I want to talk about it with you Before we begin. I do want to thank the Tannenbaum Open Science Institute for supporting the Curious Neuron podcast, as well as the McConnell Foundation. These two organizations believe in the importance of science and sharing it with all of you, and that is what I do, and so I'm very grateful for them, as I'm very grateful for you. Thank you for being here every week.

Speaker 1:

Please make sure that if you enjoy an episode, share that episode. There are clicks, links, little areas where you listen to it, whether it's in Spotify or an Apple podcast where you can share the link and share it through text with your friends. Send it by email to your colleagues. If you work at a school and you think it's one that's important for teachers, send it to them. Help me spread the word in terms of the Curious Neuron podcast and help us grow this community. And if you're not sure how, send me an email. I will help you. I will send you the links so that it makes it easier for you. Whatever you need from me, I will be there.

Speaker 1:

And one last thing before we do move on to the podcast, to the episode, we are going to have a I guess you can call it an open house, or we are bringing you into our membership for free for one day. On October 22nd, I will be giving a free reflection webinar. And I'm calling it a reflection webinar because you're going to be learning about the importance of connecting with your child and how connecting with your child can influence their behavior. So if you've been struggling with your child's behavior lately and they're having really big emotions and that's making you feel not just disconnected but not sure what to say and frustrated in those moments, come join us, because not only will you receive the science behind what we recommend and what you can try in your home I know that one piece of advice doesn't work for everyone, and so the model of what we do within the Reflective Parent Club within this membership, is giving you the strategies and the skills to reflect on a certain situation so that you can come up with what works best for you, and so this model will be applied at this webinar that will be free for you. So come join us if you are struggling with your child's behavior and you want to learn how to tune into your own level of dysregulation and figure out is this actually misbehavior that I'm seeing from my child? Or maybe they're dysregulated and I'm not sure how to notice that? Or maybe you want to learn how to assess the environment of your home to see what can be influencing or impacting my child and creating these behaviors that I don't understand. Come join us, and then you will be given the time to reflect on this and create a game plan that works for you and your family. The link is in the show notes. Don't forget to register to grab your free spot at this free webinar, and I will see you on October 22nd.

Speaker 1:

And if free webinars are not your thing, that's fine. Go into the show notes and grab my 40 page free parental well-being kit it is going to give you everything you need to start kind of assessing and noticing certain things within your home. The first part of emotional intelligence is awareness, and that is what I want to help you do, because sometimes we are stuck on this autopilot and moving. You know, one day after the next, after the next, the next, and moving forward and saying I can't do this anymore. See, that's how parental burnout comes up and overwhelm and stress. I'm just so fed up of being stuck in the same cycle. But if we pause and learn how to reflect and notice, then we could make certain changes within our home that will have an influence not just on how we respond to certain things. We won't be reacting anymore, we'll be responding, but we'll notice a difference in our child's behavior and that's what the whole membership is all about. And parents are noticing a change, and I'm so happy and proud that the model we've put forward is making a difference in these parents lives, and so that's why I want to give this webinar for free and give you this parental toolkit for free. Grab it in the show notes.

Speaker 1:

Don't forget to rate and review the podcast. I I hope you enjoy this interview with Miranda. I'll see you on the other side. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Curious Neuron podcast.

Speaker 1:

I am here with a special guest today. I want to bring in the conversation and the voice of other parents this season in the podcast, and so today I'm here with Miranda. Hi, miranda, hello, welcome. You listen to the podcast, right? I do, yes, and now you'll be listening to yourself. I love it. Thank you for accepting to join me.

Speaker 1:

You know, I wanted to have this conversation with you because I think there are so many journeys and stories that parents have shared with me.

Speaker 1:

When I was chatting with parents this summer that I feel would help other parents feel seen and less alone in their own journey, and so that's why I just think that, in addition to speaking with experts, I need to bring in more parents this season. So you and I were talking right before I started recording, and you had a few interesting stories, and I think many parents will relate to this. You know, discipline. One is something that comes to mind, because I think that we've all received some, you know, advice, and I'm saying this in quotes because we've I've heard this from my own family, from my own mom, from my own grandmother, and they all had their way of doing things, and what we're doing today in the in the sense of this more positive or conscious parenting, is very different from what they have experienced or did with us. What did you? What's the? Can you share the story that you shared with me in terms of some advice?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I know I'm nodding because in agreement. Yeah, because really I feel like what launched me into this whole journey was, yeah, my daughter. I had my first baby. She was becoming a toddler and someone said to me, well, you need to discipline her. And I just kind of looked at them and I said, all right, well, you know, I'm not really sure what you're talking about and like some things kind of through my childhood, rolled through my head and I was like, well, that's not really what I want to do either. And I said, okay, well, you know, I'll thank you and I will look into it.

Speaker 1:

What was happening? What was happening Like? Why did the, why did this person say that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was actually something like I don't. I think she didn't want to get out of the bathtub, or it was just something like really in my mind, like of course you didn't want to get out of the bathtub, right, which?

Speaker 1:

yeah, which is a moment of a child being a child, right, and I had this conversation this summer with a mom and she was talking about an elderly person who had an older person who had said to her you need to discipline your child right now. And all this child was doing was playing with their sibling in a hospital. They weren't doing anything wrong, they were just playing and instead of sitting down which they had been for an hour and now a four-year-old has to kind of release that energy started moving around and playing with their sibling, and that person said you need to discipline your child and get them to sit down. It's so interesting. I'm sure that you are not alone and this other mom is not alone and that we've been told in times when a child is just being a child, that they need to be disciplined.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and so then I did what I normally do. I got really curious about this and just kind of thinking, yeah, like, what do I want to do? And I didn't actually think anything I was doing was necessarily wrong. But I thought, okay, well, maybe this is different. And so then I picked up a parenting book. One of my first parenting books is from Dr Dan Siegel, and he said, if you're reading this book, it was about discipline. It was in the title. I thought, okay, well, this is what they're talking about out. And this was basically this whole concept of like you need to look at yourself and there are things that are going to happen to you as a parent, and like that's actually what you need to start with. And if you haven't started there all this discipline and all this you're not ready. It basically is like and anyway, seven years later, here I am.

Speaker 1:

Well, you said something, as this person said this to you. You said something that struck me where you said you kind of had a flashback right of your own childhood. What did discipline look like in your home growing up?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it was yeah, it was like I am the boss, you will listen to me because I'm the boss, right, same, yeah and yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's pretty much where it ended right In terms of trying to stay calm sometimes, which I've spoken about, which is not really the intention. It's not just about staying calm, but it's about seeing the child for who?

Speaker 1:

they are and not having these unrealistic expectations for them. So once you kind of picked up that book and started doing the inner work and then learning about discipline, which seems to be your go-to right, like, you seem to go towards the education piece, let me educate myself. What did you learn that you started applying in your own home? What seemed to work and what made a difference for you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think, well, two big things. So one was, I think I just realized, yes, I don't understand what is it developmentally appropriate at certain ages, and you know? So that was one piece of it. And then the other was really, how do I communicate in a way that can help build this relationship, you know, versus communicating in ways that are going to build like distance from us or power struggles? And yeah, and so it just came down to me working on those skills and then, for kind of the inner work, it came to me too. I realized, oh, I think what was demonstrated to me was we don't show feelings and we don't really have feelings, and so for me it was well getting back in touch with those, because I actually do have them, and then showing how I want, how I manage them, like what skills and tools do I use?

Speaker 2:

So anyway that's been the big process.

Speaker 1:

It is, and I don't think it's a process that really ends right, Because whether you have a toddler or an eight-year-old or nine-year-old, the way that you model emotions and that you support them with their social emotional skills is going to be really, really it's going to be different, right? So, like you know, if a parent is listening, they have a two-year-old. We hear about co-regulating, you know, just supporting them and that's just showing up and showing them that this is a safe space, Even if their brain right now is having a very big emotion. We're showing them that we are calm and we are collected and we are there to kind of support them with their big emotions. I think it gets harder. How old are your kids now? So seven, five, and two.

Speaker 1:

Right. So I have a five, seven and a nine year old and with the seven and nine year old kids, it's very different now in terms of co-regulating and being calm. For them it's a very different feeling, because their emotions are bigger and they're arguing together in a way that I'm like why? How did this happen? You used to be calm and play and love each other and now, like you, have these moments when you're just so mean to each other, like what happened? So it kind of evolves. You know what that looks like in terms of us supporting them. Have you noticed the same? Because now you still have a large, you know, a range of ages in your home?

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, well, and I think one time I had read something too about how children will build resilience, you know, among peer groups, and sort of how kind of more like female way of doing it and kind of a more like male way of doing it, or how we would think about you know, kind of it that way. But um and so, yeah, so I'm seeing with my girls, yeah, a lot of the verbal attacks and jabs and right yeah kind of more of that.

Speaker 1:

Uh yeah, it's just kind of interesting yeah, yeah, and it's hard to support it sometimes, right, it doesn't mean that we're staying calm all the time.

Speaker 2:

It's not easy, no no, no, no, Many, many. I get that. Yeah, the enclosed space of the vehicle seems to like draw out the best of it, and lots of pulling over the car.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's why we need more rows to like separate them.

Speaker 2:

yes, as they get older.

Speaker 1:

I get it. What has, um, you know in terms of education? You've spoke, you've spoken about books. How else have you been you know kind of educating yourself, and I know that you and I have spoken before and that seems to be be your go-to. Has it always been like that? When you started having kids, did you start, you know, learning about parenting, or were you waiting for the right moment to kind of learn about a certain topic?

Speaker 2:

No, I mean in the beginning, you know it. Just it was like a fire hydrant trying to drink from a fire hydrant a bit. So I tried to look at things that were most pressing at the time. But now I will find myself future casting and kind of dabbling into some more teen topics and things just because I feel like now I have the bandwidth and things. Just because I feel like now I have the bandwidth and I use a variety of sources, because the other thing, too that I have found really hard about this is just oftentimes how alone I feel in wanting to use this approach and it seems very different from what I see in my culture and just in our community and what I observe with other parents, you know, out at the parks and and even in my children's schools. And so I yeah, I've looked to different support groups because I can find other people. They're usually just maybe not in my neighborhood or my state.

Speaker 1:

What's the difference that you're noticing? Because I know that you have been following Kirsten around for a while and so you are part of that sort of you know conscious parenting culture. What are you seeing in your neighborhood or in society?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Well, I just realized too. You know, one of my big values is respect, and I just really feel like this approach. When I boil it all down, it just really comes to respecting another human being, even though they're not an adult, and so, yeah, so I think, just yeah, in the way that we communicate with people and expectations that I have of them and how I treat their body, and, um, yeah, it was just, it's a little different.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, I, I think that word respect is an interesting one for me because, you know, if I think back to some of the arguments I might've had with people in the past, you know it comes with their. You know about parenting and children and children. I it was the same. I was having that argument in favor of the child.

Speaker 1:

I don't think that a child should be disrespected or shamed in any other in in any way, similarly to the way that I wouldn't expect us to do that to another adult and and so it's interesting that you're bringing that up because you know, sometimes some adults will, or parents will, feel that the child has to fear them or they have to discipline in a way that is truly disrespectful to the child. Words, even words you know I've spoken about this before around terrible twos, even that. It's not even harsh, it's not mean, but I think that it creates a sort of culture and mindset around just calling like labeling and calling names, so that we're like, well, I'm not here to help you. I say, teach me twos, not terrible twos.

Speaker 1:

But the same thing happens the cash with my three kids and one of my boys was just looking over the counter and the cashier said, oh, he looks like a little brat. Nothing he had, he hadn't done anything, he was just looking over, they were quiet, they were all observant and it I don't know. The other one was a baby at that time. So I don't know if it's because he was like a preschool boy, right, and it just it really bothered me, but I didn't know what to say. So I just let it go. Obviously I didn't want to start anything, but you know, I just feel that there's this, there's still this culture, the culture around it's okay to disrespect a child. So I'm really happy that you brought that up, because I feel the same way about kids. Have you seen the same thing or heard similar like words being used?

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, yes, Just even. Yeah, yesterday a girl, maybe she was about two, had a glass of water. She dumped some on her shoe and, like you know, and they're like, oh, you're such an idiot, and I'm like I don't know if that really you know, I just really felt for her in any way, but and and and I even feel like it's bigger, like you know little things like that name calling, but even just like why don't restrooms have equipment sized for children? You know, like they use the bathrooms? So I just feel like it's just, it's everywhere when you really start looking at it, as if they don't exist.

Speaker 2:

They don't exist.

Speaker 1:

It's just a world for adults. Yeah, right, I get that.

Speaker 2:

Our uh, our family, uh, oh, sorry yeah, no, I I think you know there was like that, saying that you know children are to be, you know, seen and not heard. I I mean it's just like there's a lot of history there, I think.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my gosh, right, I get that. Yeah, I was just going to say we traveled this summer and our family went to Italy and as soon as we arrived at the airport, we were going into the adult bathroom and I was bringing my three kids and a lady that was working there stopped me and said no, go to the family bathroom. But I mean, family bathroom here in North America for me is just a bigger bathroom where I can step in with all my three kids. And I was like, well, whatever, it doesn't really make a difference in the end. But I followed her.

Speaker 1:

She was really insistent and when I went in there were different sized toilets a mini toilet with a mini sink and then a an adult toilet with an adult sink. And I was just like, oh, what is this? And we and my kids thought it was the best thing in the world they can. I didn't have to lift them to wash their hands, they went to the bathroom on their own, they were independent and they were so proud. So I love that you've brought that into the story of respect, because it's saying that you exist and you matter and they feel seen Like this world is not just for you guys, it's for us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, right, yes, yes, no, I totally agree. And like I shop at grocery stores that have the little carts, you know, because they can do the shopping.

Speaker 1:

Right, oh, I love it so much. Oh, you know, I want to. I want to be mindful of your time, but I'm also really curious to know um you, you are an OBGYN and you work with expecting parents. So you know, given the journey that you've had, if somebody is listening to this and either maybe they know somebody who's expecting, maybe they are expecting their first child, or maybe they just had their first child what is advice that you would give to a new or expecting parent, given not just your own personal journey but the work that you do?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I know, I just really feel so strongly that knowledge is power and it just will help you and really, what's so nice I feel like today is you don't have to open books and things. There's just so many ways to get really good information and really, yeah, just taking some time, because you know a lot of people that are entering parenthood today too, they did it really intentionally and they were very mindful, so wanting to be very mindful about their parenting approaches and, yeah, if something just doesn't feel right to you, you know, get curious and stick with it.

Speaker 2:

Family will be against certain things that we do and you have to find your own way, yeah, and what feels good to you, because really in the end you know, it's that relationship that you have with your child that I feel like is most meaningful, and all the other stuff. You can let it roll past you, but it takes some work to do that, obviously, but yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I think there's a kind of beauty in the way that, like in the process, I guess I could say, of figuring out who you are as a parent Right. Figuring out who you are as a parent right. It's not just about, I think and I'm saying this because what really stood out to me when I spoke to parents this summer was that a lot of parents did believe in educating themselves and that's how they came across the podcast or different websites and different social media accounts and books, like you mentioned. But then they were doing that because they never felt that they knew enough. And I want to mention that because there is going to be a point where you step away from the education and you implement right and you practice. Parenting is a skill. We're developing these skills and it's not just about consuming the content and the knowledge. There's a practice piece to it, right. Have you noticed this as well?

Speaker 2:

Oh yes, absolutely Like I would read the books and I would have kind of how I wanted to talk. But then when I would actually get into the situation, like sometimes I would just freeze because I could just like feel my brain churning Because, yeah, you really have to. It was was just something so different that I wanted to do, and sometimes I would say nothing. And one time my daughter even looked at me. She's like aren't you going to say something, mom? And I'm like you don't want to hear what I want to say right now. But I'm going to say it better. Give me two seconds, that's so good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah so it is. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Yeah, there are some skills, but really it comes down to like you just got to start using it and see where it works and it's going to feel really hard and weird at sometimes.

Speaker 1:

but most of the time, and I think that's where we build our confidence. It's learning the knowledge, reading and then going out. It's like throwing yourself out into the field. You have to do it at some point and we're going to make mistakes, we're going to say the wrong thing, but I think that's when we start building our confidence of okay, that was the wrong way to approach this. My child is really mad with me. Let me fix this, let me repair this, get back to that and try again the next time. This happens. Right, I think that's. The fun part to me is is I will make mistakes, but appreciating and embracing those mistakes, I think really helps us.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and, and I used to be scared of those mistakes too, and then I realized actually this is really helpful for my kid to see, too, like people do make mistakes and this is how you can make amends and repair with people and apologize Again. I feel like many people don't really know how to apologize, and that was also something I had to learn was how do you actually apologize?

Speaker 1:

Right. Thank you for sharing that because I know that's going to help other parents feel, seen, I was never apologized to to this day. You know from my own mother, or, like you know, adults in my, in my life, they just don't apologize.

Speaker 1:

And it's hard, it's hard to know there was a father I spoke with, um right know there was a father I spoke with right. And there was a father I spoke with a few years ago who said but that shows weakness, right, if I'm saying sorry, it's because I made a mistake and I'm supposed to be that sort of authoritarian figure in my child's life and I said, no, it just really makes you human right. To show them that you're working on something or to show them that you make mistakes, I think is going to kind of show your child that they can come to you as well and apologize and make those mistakes and show up in the same way that you did.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, it's, it's, it, it, it. I see this happening a lot now. Yeah, my kids want to confess or something about something, and, um, I'll, I and I'll hear a lot of truth coming from them. And I think part of it, too, is just because of how I approach them back and I see them not go to other people because they get a different reaction.

Speaker 1:

Right, I get it. They get a different reaction. Right, I get it. I'm just curious to know. You are a member of the Reflective Parent Club. If I could just ask a quick question about this, you know what you mentioned. I think you did mention like feeling alone, and that's what I heard from a lot of parents this summer, where they were missing that sense of community and people that have the similar values or the same parenting styles as they do. What has been your experience within the membership? Have you seen any benefits or the impact of, you know, having a group call every Tuesday?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it's something that I look forward to. You know, I feel like another big thing too is we need a safe place to offload, you know, yeah, because, yeah, I want to be angry and mad about things too and I need a safe place to, like, share that information and, you know, release all of that too, and release all of that too, because, if not, I just carry it around or it's going to come out in the places I don't want, like on my family or on my kids, right? So that part, it's just so helpful to help with releasing that and processing that. And then the community piece, and it is nice to just know, okay, I'm going to have this hour where, like, I can sit down and I can think about the week and, yeah, make little plans for something I'm wanting to do. You know, the week coming forward.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, and thank you for sharing that. I think you know. For me that was the whole goal. We schedule in, you know, work, we schedule in our kids activities, we schedule in workouts, which are important, but equally important is what we do to maintain our well being. And, like you said, offloading and reflecting and pausing to me are just so important, but we don't take the time to set that or place that into our schedule. Just so important, but we don't take the time to set that or place that into our schedule.

Speaker 1:

So that was the whole purpose for me in terms of creating that weekly call, and I'm glad that it's helping and it's creating that sort of ritual of having that, you know, one hour a week. That's just one hour a week, right Like. But we don't do it if we don't have that meeting scheduled in. No, exactly Exactly. Thank you, miranda. I appreciate this conversation and I know many parents will say you know, I've experienced very similar things, miranda, in terms of the discipline and going through that as well. So thank you again for chatting with me. Yes, you're welcome.

Speaker 1:

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Miranda. If you'd like to give the Reflective Parent Club a try, grab the coupon code in the show notes to give it a try for a month. See if you notice a difference in how you are responding, rather than reacting, with your child and how confident you feel that you can support them with their big emotions. Don't forget to rate and review the podcast and subscribe if you are not, and I will see you next Monday. Don't forget to nurture your needs this week because you matter. Happy reflections, parents.