Curious Neuron

Preparing your child for preschool using play

• Cindy Hovington, Ph.D. • Season 7 • Episode 4

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In this conversation, I chat with Connie about the critical aspects of preschool education, emphasizing the importance of play in child development. We explore the challenges children face in adapting to open-ended play, the significance of emotional regulation, and the need for realistic expectations from parents. The discussion highlights the role of curiosity in learning, the nurturing of compassion and empathy, and practical tips for parents to support their children's development at home. Ultimately, they advocate for preserving the spirit of childhood and allowing children the freedom to explore and learn at their own pace.

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Rest, Play, Grow Book:
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Read a blog post about play and child development to get more tips:
https://curiousneuron.com/2024/09/21/the-importance-of-play-in-preschool-development/

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Related Podcast Episodes:

  1. Why boredom is important for kids with Susie Allison from Busy Toddler 
  2. How to support the development of executive function skills with Dr. Aliza Pressman

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Speaker 1:

Hello, my dear friend, welcome back to another episode of the Curious Neuron podcast. My name is Cindy Huffington and I am your host. I am a mom of three from Montreal, canada, and I have a PhD in neuroscience, and my goal is to bring you the science and the research that I have been applying to my own life as a mom of three, so that you can apply it to your life in terms of supporting your child's emotional development and, most importantly, nurturing and supporting your own well-being, because I've learned from my own mistakes that ignoring our well-being is not going to help us support our child's development, and so I try to talk to experts or bring up studies that I find interesting that will help you do this. You can learn from Curious Neuron by visiting our website at curiousneuroncom, following us on Instagram at curious underscore neuron, or on Facebook. You can join our Facebook group by clicking the link in the show notes and our new membership is finally launched. And if you are somebody who's looking for a little bit of extra help and you've been listening to the podcast for a while now, or following the social media content, content, and you're like I want to make sure that I could apply this in my life then. The membership, called the Reflective Parent Club, is a place that you can get support from me every single week, and you could click the link in the show notes to learn more or email me at info at kirstenroncom.

Speaker 1:

Today, we are talking about preschool years and the importance of play. I have spoken about this a long time ago. I haven't done this in a really long time, but I needed to bring this back because of what I'm hearing and I'm seeing in our society. I think that we need a reminder that preschool is not about learning ABCs. I had the most amazing conversation with Connie, and she's going to give us the insights that we need. It is such an inspiring episode. But before I share the interview with you and share her bio, I just want to thank the Tannenbaum Open Science Institute for supporting the Curious Neuron podcast, as well as the McConnell Foundation. These two foundations believe in the importance of sharing science, just as we do here at Curious Neuron, and so because of them, this podcast can continue. And, of course, this podcast would not be possible without you. So thank you to all of you for listening to the podcast, for downloading it, for subscribing to the podcast so that you make sure you get the new episodes every single Monday.

Speaker 1:

Because of the sponsorship, I will be bringing in more interviews and trying to make sure that I can get access to the people that will make a difference in your life and make things easier when it comes to supporting your child's emotional development and your well-being. This year, I also want to bring in a few parent interviews, because I think it's important for us to feel less alone as parents, and many parents have conversations or stories that might help you feel that the situation you're in is not just with you and with your child, and so if you are a parent that has a story to share, send me an email at info at curiousneuroncom and I will more than gladly jump on a podcast interview with you and help you share your story with our audience. And just to give you a sneak peek within the Reflective Parent Club this week on Tuesday so every Tuesday we have a group coaching call that I call Reflection Calls, and Tuesdays at 12 pm Eastern so during your lunch break or at 8 pm Eastern time, we talk about different topics. This Tuesday, we are talking about whether you struggle with boundaries and how you could support that. Boundaries are something that I only started working on more mindfully in my 30s.

Speaker 1:

We have not many of us have not been taught to, you know, to set boundaries, and so we get uncomfortable when our child sets boundaries or we just struggle with setting boundaries with others. I was just on Facebook earlier today and I saw a mom post about her siblings getting mad at her child because they always felt like he was the one starting the problems. And he was a young child. He's five years old and, although he is around the same age as the other kids, her siblings kept getting mad at her child and, instead of setting the boundary and stepping up for her child, she said that she struggled with doing this because she didn't want to start an argument with her siblings and so she would take her child and leave the area. This kind of avoidance and not setting our boundaries is what can lead to struggles for us with relationships in our lives, and we might think that boundaries are going to set or make people upset around us, and they might. But the boundaries that you model for your child will help them set boundaries when they are older, and it's just so important, and that's why we are talking about that within the Reflective Parent Club.

Speaker 1:

Not only do you get a few days free when you join the membership so that you can try it out. What you could do is join on Monday or Tuesday so that you could join the Reflect, the reflection call on that Tuesday, gain some insight, see how we have this amazing community that supports you. And then if you don't like it, it's okay, you can just leave. And if you do like it and you see all the content that was in the membership, then you could stay. So you can give that a try. And if you want to join, use the code PODCAST20 to get 20% off your first year, so that comes down to $18 per month, to get weekly access to me, monthly Q&As with experts that I'm bringing in, that are authors from books, researchers that I bring into the membership, and all of the content that's within the membership to help you nurture your well-being and support your child's emotional development. And if you only want to try it out for a month, you can use the code PODCAST50 to bring that first month down to $14.50 so that you can give it a try and see if it's for you. Don't miss out on these codes. They will not be available forever and so you need to give it a try and see if it works out for you and makes you feel more confident, more empowered, and notice the difference that our members are seeing, where they are yelling less at their child, having fewer arguments with their partners because they are more mindful of their emotions, they are able to pause and reflect and respond rather than react, and so I will see you inside the membership. All right, let's dive into today's interview.

Speaker 1:

Connie Caseta has 30 years of experience in the education field. Connie has dedicated her career to both teaching children and consulting on childhood development. Her expertise lies in fostering strong educational foundations in both children and their families. Connie remains passionate about supporting parents as they guide their children towards school success. She believes that it is important for parents to understand their preschoolers' developmental stages and adjust expectations accordingly. By recognizing each child's unique pace of growth, parents can create more supportive environments that align with their children's needs, fostering better learning experiences.

Speaker 1:

I had the absolute pleasure of meeting Connie a little over a year ago now, and I just knew that I needed to bring her on the podcast. I loved her insights, and not just her insights she was so passionate about creating a fruitful and nurturing environment for preschoolers. I knew I needed to bring her on the podcast. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. I will see you on the other side.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back everyone to the Curious Neuron podcast and, as promised, I am here with Connie. Connie, welcome to the Curious Neuron podcast. Thank you so much for having me, cindy. I think we've been chatting now for at least a year and you know one thing that has been very clear to me, and the reason why I wanted you on this podcast is because of how much I can see you care for those preschool kids, whether it's supporting the children or giving them this environment that will be nurturing to their development. That is something that stands out to you. So I'd love to know how long have you been doing this and what brought you to this part of your journey.

Speaker 2:

Oh, wow. I've been in education for 30 years now. Most of my career was teaching preschoolers, and when I transitioned over to consulting, I knew that that was my dream job is really supporting teachers and parents and administrators and policymakers really in creating just that environment that really favors growth. And so I just knew that was the area I wanted to work in and that was the area that I'm really passionate about, and I feel that my passion just gives me that purpose. So it doesn't even feel like work honestly. It just always felt like a natural extension of who I am and what I love. Well, it shows. Thank you, that's very kind, I appreciate that Speaking of.

Speaker 1:

So that's what we're here today to talk about. You know this preschool education and for me, you know, kind of what I'd like to start off with is the differences that we see in different countries and differences, you know, in in how parents speak about. You know the importance of preschool, or not, right? We had this conversation very briefly a couple days ago or weeks ago, you know, regarding that. So you know, I look online and I look at these studies and they talk about the importance of open-ended play and that preschool is still this time in a child's life where it's not really about the ABCs yet, right, absolutely. So what have you seen, or what is important to you, I guess, when you're thinking about how to support a preschool teacher?

Speaker 2:

Well, when we talk about play thank you for bringing that up, because that is at the heart of our Quebec education program. For those of you who are listening from abroad, our preschool program here in Quebec is a new program that was implemented in 2021. And it really is a play-based program. That doesn't mean that children are just running around in chaos, but whatever they are learning it is through play. So we do know that play really is the birthplace of personhood and it's really how the authentic self is born. So when we talk about play, it's where all the fun happens and that's what children are built for.

Speaker 2:

And very often I like to quote Neufeld in his Making Sense of Play course and he talks about the characteristics of true play.

Speaker 2:

It's a spontaneous activity that cannot be commanded or taught right. So play is not work, it's not for real and, most importantly, it's expressive and exploratory. So it's super important that young children are given that time to play and explore, because the minute we put an outcome to it which is happening right now, especially maybe in a lot of homes if we take the example of just playing an instrument when a child is learning an instrument for fun, he's having fun, he's exploring. They're maybe making mistakes. Sometimes they don't sound so great, but the minute we make it about practicing for a recital, that fun is no longer there because we're focused on the outcome. So that's what we really want to focus with preschoolers is allowing them to explore, to learn how to control their impulse, learn how to control their their really sometimes even their anger, learn how to control their emotions. They're practicing all their executive function skills while they're at play. So really all the research has been proven that play is the ideal way for children to learn, but yet it really has become an endangered beast.

Speaker 1:

I'm so happy you said that we're going to get into the cognitive aspects of this, because I know parents had some questions around emotions, like you said, the anger and the impulse. We're going to get into that, but we have to continue talking about play because you're right, it's, it's, it's going extinct, it's, it's truly, and and I still, to this day, have many conversations with parents who want to be convinced of the importance of play, or that perceived play as what you just described, the planned activities. Um, you know, as what you just described the planned activities. You know, being with friends but doing some sort of organized activity, rather than that open-endedness of just being outside and not having a purpose. And so what happens is that what I'm seeing on my end are kids that struggle with boredom, that are so used to some structured sort of environment that the open-endedness to it is confusing, like what do I do now? I'm bored, I don't know what to do with myself in this moment. Are you seeing the same?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I am. And at the same time we're also seeing because of our fast-paced digitalized world and I know it's become almost like a cliché and a lot of people listening may be rolling their eyes. It's become almost like a cliche and a lot of you know, a lot of people listening may be rolling their eyes, but in fact it really has created the erosion of the child's spirit because we're so focused on the task at hand or keeping them engaged in a structured task or structured activities, and we've began to believe that earlier is better. We've began to believe that earlier is better. So if we get them playing that sport earlier or reading earlier or just reading doing math earlier, that it will become better. And earlier is not better. Quicker is not better.

Speaker 1:

So what are you seeing in terms of this change in our society and how the open-ended play is kind of being minimized and the structured play or the pushing towards kind of learning things a little faster? What is that? What's the result of that within the classroom?

Speaker 2:

children come in and during that, for us in Quebec I can't speak to other provinces or countries we do have that two periods of 45 minutes that are mandated a day of free play. So when we talk about free play, it's totally. It's not guided by the teacher, it's not teacher led, there are no outcomes, there are no teaching goals per se. While that child is at free play, the child gets to choose with whom and for how long he plays with whatever manipulatives are in the classroom or whatever resources they have at their disposal in the classroom.

Speaker 2:

That it's really sometimes for certain children it's really long and it's really difficult for them to have that sustained engagement, that sustained interest. Very often they'll themselves say I'm bored, I don't know what to do. Because 45 minutes and it should be it is 45 minutes uninterrupted time because that is time we want the children to learn that stamina. And if you give children Lego and you only give them 10 minutes, well they can't carry out a true task right when they're playing with their friends or they have an idea, it takes a lot of time to really get engaged and maybe if you want to carry out a task. So we're noticing that especially at the beginning, and now in our province we have four-year-olds in our classrooms as well. So, as much as they crave it and they love it, sometimes you find them especially at the beginning of the year because it's all new right now what's happening in the classrooms. It may be challenging for them even to have that sustained engagement.

Speaker 1:

Right, and that falls back to the executive functions that you spoke about right, where there's a level of focus or concentration that comes into planning and organizing, and those all fall within executive functions, and so those are skills that a child will learn during that open-ended play. You said it right they have to build and organize their time.

Speaker 2:

Correct. And so when we give them that opportunity to play, it really allows them to express themselves, despite their lack of words and vocabulary and maybe worldly knowledge and worldly understanding. It really gives them a chance to make sense of their environment and who they are in it.

Speaker 1:

Do you get pushback in terms of play, whether it's from parents or even educators, who might be used to not doing this within the classroom? But the reason why I'm asking is because I've heard parents say well, my child could play at home. Then what's the point of preschool, right? I've heard this, and so I'm curious to see if you've heard that kind of pushback.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, when the when this new program was implemented three years back, it seemed like a shocking idea to parents, to educators and administrators alike, right? That being said, our Quebec education program for preschool at the time was only kindergarten was always a play-based program. The only the big difference right now was that the play, with all the research they did, was mandated. It was mandated as those two 45-minute periods of play. So, yes, maybe pushback is a hard word, but it's really having them the buy-in maybe is a better word to understand why. So my mission and my role is really to educate parents, educate school staff on the importance of play in childhood development.

Speaker 1:

What's missing, I guess in terms of you're trying to get the word out there. What do you think we need to do more? Is it just about talking about it a lot more? Yes, Because it's not like. The way that I see it is, if a child practices a new instrument right, In a few weeks you'll be like oh, wow, you, you can play a small song Right and that's great, You've learned something. We see the direct impact. Versus if a child is playing every single day for two periods of 45 minutes, it'll take a while months for you to say wow, I just noticed that you're playing longer on your own at home, or that you're focused longer and staying seated at the table much longer. It's going to take a lot more time. You think that's kind of like the missing link, where we don't see the direct positive impact.

Speaker 2:

Yes, because in childhood development, right, and I mean you know above everybody the impacts are not immediate. The change or the effects of what we are doing now are not immediate. And it is interesting because I wrote a quote every year before I start my school year. I write a quote at the beginning of my agenda and it says somebody is sitting in the shade today because you planted a tree many years ago, right, and that's. It's the same thing for education and what we're trying to do, what we're working on right now. We don't get to see the impact of it, and I think that is why people may be resistant sometimes to that, because the change is not immediate, right. So I think what can we do? I really do think having these types of conversations and it's just educating people about childhood development, I think that's really the missing link. And really talking about the research, because these aren't, like Gabor Matis says, these aren't controversial issues. These are are facts, these are this all these books, everything we're learning programs are built on facts, not just on opinions.

Speaker 1:

Right, I had heard you know somebody say that preschool is meant to teach you how to become a student, and that kind of brought me back to what you and I were talking about the other day. And you know we have this. It's almost ingrained in us, like you said, like, teach kids ABCs faster, teach them how to read faster. But then when I see a young child, I'm not thinking about whether or not they can read at three years old. I'm thinking about how are they holding a pen? How are they staying seated long enough, right, like there's a lot that goes behind that. So how would you explain to a parent that maybe their child is younger than five years old, maybe their child isn't in preschool yet, but they're already starting to think about how do I make sure they're prepared for preschool? How do we think about what that means, you know, in terms of preparing them to be a student?

Speaker 2:

That's great. That question comes up a lot. I meet a lot with parents in the spring, april, may, june that's when we really get a lot of meetings with parents and that question always comes up school readiness what does it look like for my preschooler to be ready for school? And I always say the same thing to all parents. So if they're starting school at four, we just need to ensure that they are four years old as of September 30 and you can bring them a knapsack to school and if they're not buying their lunch, a lunch in their bag. That's all they need, because that's why they're coming to school and, like I tell teachers as well, at four and five years old, we aren't teaching them example reading, we aren't teaching them how to read, but we are teaching them all the skills, all the prerequisites they will need to know to become good readers eventually.

Speaker 2:

Same thing with math, same thing for social and emotional, same thing for cognitive right Learning about their world around them. We aren't teaching science per se. However, in learning about the weather and about insects and about planets, we're setting them up with all the skills and knowledge background knowledge they will eventually need when they start their academic years as of grade one. So the problem is, the question really is are we trying to grow children or are we trying to control development? Trying to grow children or are we trying to control development, right?

Speaker 1:

So very often that's what we talk to parents about and what does it mean for your child to be ready for preschool? I had joined a class at Harvard, actually many years ago. I had joined one class in the mind, brain and education department and the professor that opened up the class started off with this line and she said we are born curious, but education kills it. And I was like, wait, a second, hold on. But I think we have to look at it critically that way, in the sense of what you just said. Right, that what you just said also brought the word curiosity to my mind because, again, it's not about them knowing all the planets at four years old, it's about them being curious.

Speaker 1:

What do you mean? There are other planets? What do you mean? That there's different gases in the air? What do you mean Like? But how does a tree grow? I don't know. You know like? I think that's what we have to keep nurturing in that preschool, you know phase. I look at my son. He's just like curious, and we want to nurture that as much as we can?

Speaker 1:

He's just like curious.

Speaker 2:

And we want to nurture that as much as we can, and if we believe that they should be given the time and space to grow, we will then create the conditions for that natural development to unfold. So when we talk about that with parents, very often I'll tell them what's important for your child to have is a healthy lifestyle habits. That's super important before they start preschool. Right, that's what you can, you know, take care of as a parent. Are they going to sleep? Are they eating? Are they eating well? Are they, you know, are we really? We don't want to count the grams of sugar they have per day, but are we taking care of that aspect of it? Are they able to interact with other children? Are they able to interact with other children? How do they adapt to new situations? When we talk about attachment and you know even better than I that attachment is a huge piece Attachment and maturity is a huge piece. When we're dealing with preschoolers, how do they adapt?

Speaker 2:

When new adults come into their lives, and especially when they're going to start school, you know they're going to have new teachers, new educators. Sometimes they're going to have a specialist. They may go to a phys ed teacher or a music teacher. Sometimes their teacher may be absent. How do they deal with that? That's part of what success looks like for a preschooler. Are they interested in reading? And then we could talk about that a lot. Because if you want to give your child two gifts every day is play with them and read to them, and that's what I always tell parents. If you want to do anything with them during the summer months or even during the school year, all you have to do is take them outside to play, because research does prove that when they're outdoor playing, they definitely explore and move more. Take them out to play, or play indoors, whatever is most convenient for your family life, and read to your child every day.

Speaker 1:

I love that you haven't stated, like a book, that we have to buy to start writing and preparing the alphabets. It's not about that. We have to buy to start writing and preparing the alphabets. It's not about that. And I'm sure it's uncomfortable for a parent to hear when you, when they ask you like how to prepare them for September, and you say, get their school bag ready and bring them to school on the day that school starts. You know, I think that must be because of our society. You know, telling us, like, if your child doesn't know how to read by four years old, like you know, maybe you're late and it depends on the cultures as well.

Speaker 1:

But I, you know, I had spoken to a mom in Japan and she was saying how her three year old was criticized because of these delays. I'm saying in quotes, and you know, I don't know if we're there yet here, but it's definitely something that we put pressure on our kids. Yeah, I, and the attachment part. I wonder if you can speak to that a little bit, because I do know that I've had some friends who really struggled with that, with their children struggling with a new environment, and they always, they or they often would say to me why can't my child just adapt? But my response to them was give them time. It takes time, right? We can't expect every child to start and feel comfortable in this new environment with a new caregiver in their environment.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And very often when parents do ask about that, I notice when schools have their orientation periods and we're trying to bring in parents to meet the new school that they're going to be going to in the fall and the child. Very often I remember myself be, you know, going to in the fall and the child. Very often I remember myself too. You see kids crying and screaming and some kids are really not comfortable with it and we really tell them and you see the, the mortification on their faces. They're like like this embarrassment takes over and they're really. And I always tell parents your four-year-old and five-year-old is immature and that's okay, that they are exactly where they should be at.

Speaker 2:

So we do have to allow them that piece. And I mean so. I tell parents have you ever started a new job, right? I mean, if you put yourselves in the position of starting a new job, you don't go in, you know, clicking your heels and high fiving everybody on your first day, right? So that. So sometimes we forget because we have that pressure from society, because we want to just say everything went well and we want to have that picture perfect moment. But the fact is they really do all start at different phases, different places. You know, and that's the beauty I find of our preschool program is that we really do encourage that. We really have to. It's about accept the school, accepting the child where they're at, and not the child arriving where the school is at.

Speaker 1:

That brings in this question of like. Sometimes we have unrealistic expectations for our kids, right, expecting that starting in a new environment you know, having one or two, even three new adults in their life that you know, like you said, sometimes it's not just the teacher but the gym teacher, another teacher, there might not be just one Having this expectation that they're going to thrive right away and that there will be no transition period. That's unrealistic and I think you know what you said is something we have to keep in mind that it will take time and they will learn. And again, like you said, just starting off preschool and being open to what they have to learn there, that's the expectation, not thinking that they have to start being ready and knowing everything before they begin.

Speaker 2:

When I was teaching many years back, I had a child that the Swedish child came from a super loving home and you know, her older sister was in the school and she got off the school bus and I promise I am not exaggerating off the school bus and I promise I am not exaggerating every single day from August 30 to holiday break in December and cried and vomited every single day because she was just so devastated of leaving her mom and she really was had. Um, she had an attachment to me, she felt very safe with me because she'd come and she'd hold on to my leg and when she got tired of holding on to my leg she'd, you know, crawl over into the library area and just sit there with a book. And she did that every day till holiday break in december. She came back after the holidays and it had just disappeared, happy to be there. You know we spoke with the parents. Maybe you don't want to feed her breakfast before she takes that early school bus because it might not be helping the vomiting situation, but the fact is she really did cry every single day and until she felt ready and secure in her own skin I mean, she was letting go of her big sister in the morning. She was letting go of her mom very early in the morning to take that school bus. And while other kids may have cried for two weeks, it took her three months.

Speaker 2:

She grew up into a very well-adjusted, very successful young woman, is doing fantastic things. So we just allowed her and gave her that time. At no point did I ever bring in the psychologist to speak with her. I didn't think she needed an individualized educational plan because she had been crying. I really just allowed her to express herself and that's what she was feeling. And there were moments in the day where she'd come over and she'd read with us and sit with us.

Speaker 2:

But her morning, every single day from August 30th to holiday break, was crying and vomiting. Poor little girl, oh my gosh, poor you too. And when she would come back, she came back for many years after she left our school, when she was in high school and well into college, and she came back and she would always come and see me and she says I can't believe I put you through that. And I said I was fine. I just I felt for her because, right, she was just, you know, upset. But um, really we have to allow them to be. We really have to allow them to be and not rush, because we are in a society of trying to speed everything up and, unfortunately, childhood really is just something we cannot speed up and nor should we Thank you for saying that Exactly?

Speaker 1:

Oh, that needs to be a quote. I really do think, and I even wrote. I even wrote down on my. I always have my notebook beside me, but I wrote down. Allow them to be, because I think it's a reminder that we need to keep reminding ourselves, or something we need to keep reminding ourselves about as parents, because we are very quick to label and to say what's wrong with you? Right, like, why can't you just stay seated? You're three years old, stay seated. What's wrong with you? Right, like why can't you just stay seated? You're three years old, stay seated. What's wrong with you, maybe you have ADHD? And wait, let's, let's pause. Let's remember that there are developmentally appropriate things that children do that we might not really understand, but that a two or three year old will move around. A four year old will move around. A four year old will not regulate their emotions yet, but that's what we are there for to support them and to scaffold what that looks like for them.

Speaker 2:

And when you talk about, you know, regulating the emotions. In our program it's based on five areas of development. So we have the social, emotional, language, cognitive and physical and motor. So when we look at the social and emotional as well as the physical, they talk about the importance of a child learning to calm, you know, learning to calm down, learning to self-regulate, and we know that self-regulation I mean they work on that well into adulthood. I mean I know many adults that don't know how to self-regulate right. So to avoid, like this epidemic of anxiety within children, that's why these are skills that we really need to hone in on when they're with us in preschool. So if we don't help a child to learn breathing techniques and calming techniques and the importance of mindful moments and the importance of coloring, with soft music in the background, reading a book laying down, just learning how to calm themselves, if we allow them that space and time to learn those skills, it will help them in the long run and those skills will take them further, will take them further.

Speaker 2:

And I had read the book I don't know if you've ever read it by Deborah McNamara Rest, play, grow and I get no royalties. I have nothing to do with Deborah McNamara. No, we love books. Okay, we love books, but Rest, play, grow. It's about making sense of preschoolers and she says something so beautiful. She says we can do many things faster, but raising children wasn't meant to be one of them, and I think that's really pivotal in our understanding of childhood development.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, and that comes back to. I want to bring it back to the social emotional skills, because I think that's where I hear a lot of misconceptions, where a child should know how to control their emotions when they're four years old. And that's the hard part because and I feel for a teacher who's in preschool because you have X amount of students that are learning, just barely learning, just starting to get the cognitive skills that they need to regulate emotions, and that's hard. So, you know, one thing that I want to bring up is that these social emotional skills you are, you know your child is doing some of the work at school, but that's the key word, some of the work.

Speaker 1:

Right, there's the home environment, which I've spoken about here on Curious Neuron many, many years and many, many times how the home environment, including how parents model regulating emotions, how parents, the sort of parenting style that they have and how warm and sensitive it is towards their child, and how it balances boundaries and limits, because both of those are very important. Children need boundaries In addition to how parents model emotions together, how they regulate when they are together or the two adults whichever two adults are in the home. Children are looking towards that, and so, as parents somebody who's listening to this just I want to make sure that the expectations are realistic, in the sense that just because your child is going to school, they're not going to learn all of the social emotional skills. They're going to learn some, they're going to practice them with their friends and their teacher, but the home remains a very important part.

Speaker 2:

Yep, caring and compassionate children are homegrown by nurturing those emotional roots. And I'm not sure if it was you or it was another session I had participated in I'm not sure if it was you and we talked about how preschoolers can only have and deal with one emotion at a time. I'm not sure it was you that said that, I'm not sure whether that said that, and the importance of understanding that. If you know little Johnny always, you know poor Johnny, all the little boys named Johnny out there, little Johnny kicks little Kevin because Kevin stole his Legos. Well, he can't feel sorry and upset at the same time. He's only dealing with one emotion and I often tell teachers that and I tell parents that. So what happens very often is parents want to force that. Say sorry, you better say sorry, you better say sorry and we're hurrying to get this mature performance out of there and that really it distorts their understanding of those emotions, because I'm being forced to say sorry when I'm not feeling very sorry right now. Yeah, I wanted that toy.

Speaker 1:

That was my objective.

Speaker 2:

So let's talk about that and it's not just about, you know, giving that space and allowing children, you know, to hit others. That's not really what we're talking about. It's just allow the child to feel what he's feeling before we race him to. You have to feel sorry and you have to say sorry. We want to eventually lead them there, but we have to give them those skills for compassion, because compassion and caring is nurtured Exactly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that you brought that up, and it's true, because I think that, as parents also, we kind of move very quickly towards the discipline piece, right, whether it's with a friend that our child is with or their siblings. They take a toy, they scream, they hit each other. It's like say sorry right away, but wait let's. First of all, that child is probably dysregulated and so now is not the best time to talk to them about this and to teach them is not the best time to talk to them about this and to teach them. What you want to do is set that boundary first of we don't hit and you don't hit, and then after that, having the discussion of you did this, you felt this way, but that also led to the other person in the situation feeling that way and again, it's not an overnight thing.

Speaker 2:

It means you have to keep doing this so that they take it on and understand it more. And then what always makes me giggle is not only say sorry, but then it's the step further say sorry like you mean it. I really don't mean it, right? I really don't mean it. As parents and even some educators as well, right, we want our children to grow up so quickly and emerge as socially and emotionally responsible beings, and really we're so preoccupied by their performance and what they'll look like and how it will reflect on us when we're at Toys R Us and our child is throwing a tantrum, that we're forgetting about the child in front of us that's experiencing these emotions, forgetting about, you know, the child that had, the child in front of us that's experiencing these emotions.

Speaker 1:

What would you say to a parent who's listening to this and says, OK, I now understand that there's a little bit of work that we need to do in our home, and if I just follow what you said, then it's about playing making sure my child has open ended play and making sure I read to them.

Speaker 1:

So it sounds simple enough, but when it comes to play, they might be in the same situation that you mentioned within the classroom where I'm bored, what do I do, mommy? I'm bored, you know, like, go play outside. What do I do outside? Well, how does a parent support their child in this sort of environment if they're trying to get them used to something that they haven't been doing, you know, lately?

Speaker 2:

Sure. So if we talk about like the magic box right, I mean box, even a glue stick if you like, rip up and I'm not saying to give scissors, not even to a three or four year old like, start ripping up and just get your child, just using the beauty of their imagination, allowing them to just be creative, just talking, even if you're just having a conversation and ripping a box. That's a skill in fine motor and at the same time it's it's playful because they're also seeing you interact with that. And very often, if we want them to play, very often we can the ideas that come from books and the imagination, this imaginary world that it brings children to. If you're not sure where to start, pick a book, read a book and anything playful can come out of reading that book. And you know, an imaginary land can come out of reading that book. You can build a tower together. You can. You know there's. The world is endless when we of reading that book. You can build a tower together. The world is endless when we start with a book.

Speaker 2:

So for most parents who aren't sure where to start because, let's be real, we don't get a manual to become a parent, we don't go through a course to become a parent and it is the most important job in the world and it is challenging, especially in our times. My biggest advice is follow your heart and if you start with a book, very often it will lead to many beautiful places. Or just you know, taking your child outside and running with your child playing in the leaves, and even sometimes you know parents there are parents and there's no judgment who aren't comfortable with that. Right, I was going to bring that up, right, yeah, they're not comfortable with that. Maybe rough and tumble or that type of tumbling play or that too touchy feely, because not everybody's like that and that doesn't make them not loving parents.

Speaker 2:

But just taking a walk and talking to your child is a beautiful gift, because very often now, I mean, I see it all the time when you take walks or you're driving in your car and you look over, you see people walking with their infants in the strollers and the adult, whoever it is mom, dad, whatever adult is responsible for them, very often on their devices, right, and that's a missed opportunity for just having a discussion. Look at the birds, I mean, and it doesn't have to be a thesis statement or a big, huge conversation. Just look at the birds, look at the trees. Talking with your child is the beginning.

Speaker 1:

Even I would do with my kids. We would go for a walk and I would say let's say in the fall, like let's pick up some leaves, let's find some leaves, We'd bring a Ziploc bag and fill it up, or let's look for some rocks. You know, like I don't. I understand that some parents say and I've heard this too where they say play isn't for me or I have no idea what to do with you know of how to play with my kid. So I'll say two things. First, let your child lead. They are the experts in play. Just give them the space to lead you. And, like you said, sometimes it stems from a book. My kids also. In addition to books. There's Bluey that I want to bring up, because Bluey, that show, has so many ideas for pretend play. My kids can watch this eight-minute episode and play for two hours just doing what they made a cubbyhole. They make a house with their fort and their blankets and they create a little house for this stuffy that they saw in Bluey and they're like we're going to build the same house for this stuffy. It's so easy to find some ideas through books, and through bluey specifically, that I know of um, but then the next one. So letting them lead and then doing things that you enjoy.

Speaker 1:

I remember with my kids when they were younger, I really liked um, playing bank or restaurant. I liked having the little notepad and like a stamp and I would do what was fun for me and allow myself to kind of you know, follow their lead, but still doing things that I enjoyed. And I think we can do that. Like you said, we don't have to jump in the mud with them. If we don't want to, that's okay, we don't expect you to. But do something that you do enjoy. You know, if you want to go for a walk at the park, go for that walk If that's going to help you as well. But in terms of play at home, let them lead, but then take the little parts that you enjoy the most. If you want to color, if you just want to be the banker or the restaurant owner and they come to you, you know like you can find things that you enjoy.

Speaker 2:

I would have to agree and what comes? What are you naturally inclined to? Right? What do you like, what is a natural extension of you? And what a beautiful moment for your child to see you in that vulnerable state as well. Right that you're bringing your child, you know, when you're leading, that, like you said, you would play cashier or whatever it may be. Right, you're bringing your child into your world and also then giving him that opportunity to lead in the play as well.

Speaker 2:

But absolutely just taking a walk, especially now, collecting leaves. The seasons are changing. There's so much you can do, even if you just want to come home and compare the leaves or put them in a book and dry them, make a wreath, or just play in the leaves and roll in the leaves. That's just a beautiful gift. And children remember those moments. You know when I was, my children are. You know they're grown up now I have a 21 year old and a 19 year old, but I remember when I was on maternity leave with them and I took a few years off. I was fortunate enough to be able to do that and we had some moms around us and they'd forever be cleaning their house and they'd be like how do you manage to take two walks a day with your kids and spend half the morning in the park? Don't you have cleaning to do? I said, yep, I do. But at the end of the day, when all is said and done, my children won't really care or ever remember a clean house, but they will feel the joy I felt when I spent time with them.

Speaker 2:

And it wasn't always easy, and I know, you know that. Having two toddlers under the age of three home and neither of them were in daycare, it was difficult, but the time spent it wasn't. And I was a teacher at the time and people are like, oh, you must play teacher and your kids are going to learn to read so fast. And I never forced them into that world. Yeah, it's always reading, it's always reading and math. I never forced them into that world. I just, you know, we'd go to the park, we'd play in the sand, climb structures, and that was really what we did. We planned for fun, right, that was.

Speaker 1:

Oh, thank you for sharing that. I think it's so important for parents to hear that. You know, and I would also challenge parents to you know, challenge themselves to turn one no into a yes. Not all the time. Take one no One day when you say no to your child that asks you to do something. Turn it to a yes, my no.

Speaker 1:

This summer that turned into a yes was my kids had tennis, and my youngest had it in the morning and my older two had it in the afternoon, and between those two classes we'd come home, we'd have lunch, I would get a bit of work done at the home and then we'd come back, you know, go back to the tennis courts and play. And so my kids said can we have a water, a water gun, fight outside, you know, like and spray each other. And I said you guys can, and they said no. With you, I was like I don't want to get my hair today. And then I went inside and when I came back inside the house I said this is my no, that's going to become a yes. And I put on my bathing suit and I went into the backyard and they didn't expect it. I filled up all the water we have, we have a bunch of those. And we just started chasing each other in the backyard and we were laughing so hard.

Speaker 1:

I came back into the home drenched my husband was here because he works from home and I began to sob, but sob, sob so hard and he's like what happened? Did something happen? I'm like no, I'm so happy. I don't know why. I've never done this with them, like to this extent, right when you're, don't you know? Just thinking I have to have my hair in a certain way. I'm going back to the tennis court. Who cares? And in the end it was about thinking also, you know, people seem to my backyard, I, I'm going to be running around and you know, I it just didn't feel like safe for me in a way, for some reason. But turn one. No one, no until yes.

Speaker 2:

Do you ever ask yourself and I want parents, I guess, to ask themselves, why no, right, why do we say no? And and I often think for parents, for teachers, for young, you know, early school educators often we say no or we resist because we're afraid to lose control, right, right, and it's interesting you say that. And now, by no means am I telling you, know, listeners, to go out and get a dog, because it is a lot of work. However, several years back, my whole, my whole life, I had always wanted a dog, and for us it was just no, no, you're not getting a dog and you're not getting a dog, but I just always wanted a dog. And so we, my husband and I, we never grew up with pets, except for birds, and but you know, you don't have to walk birds, right? So I had, my children had always asked for a dog, and I just gave them that immediate no. It was always no, but why? And I never had an answer, except it's too much work. And so, a few years back, something changed in me and I just said, uh, I want to get a dog. So I didn't speak to my kids about it and I spoke to my husband and I said I want to put my name on that breeders list, I want to get that dog. Why? I said because I want to give our family that. I think it's a beautiful opportunity for just I don't know more love in the house, even more joy, just to give our children that experience of having their own pet.

Speaker 2:

So he said no. I said okay, why no? And he says well, no. And I said okay, and I said exactly what I'm asking our listeners why no? And he says because it's too much work. And I said, well, when has that stopped us ever before? I said if you could come up with a better reason of why no, I will definitely respect it and I want us to both be on the same page. He couldn't. And you know, four years later we have our dog we love. Our dog is the best decision we ever made. But this, often the question is why no? Right, and it's because we're afraid to let go and either lose control. We're afraid to let go, to let that control go yeah, I think that that's the word the control part.

Speaker 1:

Um, I'm bringing bluey back up because I've just seen every episode 10 times. But there's an episode where the mom and the dad are at the park with their two daughters and their daughter has a friend and the friend is afraid of being on this structure, that the dad is shaking and pretending it's a pirate ship, and so he's like there's a wave coming and he's like moving it to the side and the kid uh, the extra kid doesn't want to be there and she's scared. She's like no, I don't want to be on this thing, it's, I'm just too scared. And bluey's parents, they tell her's okay, you have to be brave. And then all of a sudden the dad pretends he's a whale and he's like and he's making all these noises. And then he turns and he sees a dad that just walks up and puts his baby in the swing and he starts swinging his baby and then he starts, he goes silent. And then the mom's like hey dad, what happened? Where's the whale? He's like like, it's okay, we're just gonna shake those waves. And she's like hey dad, where's the whale? And then she goes oh, somebody else here has to be brave.

Speaker 1:

And then the dad takes a moment and he looks at the other dad and you can tell like he's thinking. He's gonna think I'm I mean I'm gonna embarrass myself, right, like I'm making these big sounds and I'm a whale and whatever it is, and then the mom convinces him like somebody has to be brave here too to show this girl that she has to be brave, and then that goes and he becomes a whale again and he does. But it was the sense of control. It was that like I need to maintain this. I mean I'm an adult, I don't know, an adult should not make those sounds and that closure, right. And and I think we have to let go.

Speaker 2:

And there's um a beauty and a joy in that, when we let go, that we I don't think we experience often enough right, and that's why I I um, when I go into schools and I speak to uh, teachers that aren't preschool teachers, I always tell them everybody should have at least one experience teaching preschool in their, in their career. If you're a teacher, because it really um, you see the world from a different pair of eyes when you're dealing with preschoolers and you end up having to surrender. You have to surrender to the beauty that is, you have to surrender to that four-year-old way of being, or else you will be miserable in that role, because it's just, they don't want to be in control, they just want to live and have fun doing it. So it's, and that's really, I think, what we're just missing right now is we just we want to get back to just allowing them to have fun missing right now is we just we want to get back to just allowing them to have fun, right, and yeah and uh.

Speaker 1:

You know I? It makes me think of a slide I have in one of my presentations where I talk about what nurtures our wellbeing and I talk about compassion and um, gratitude and awe, and awe is what they have. That we are missing as adults and they have it. They don't even look for it, they just have it. I mean that garbage truck and recycling truck come and my kids are at the window waiting.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh it's the best day and I remember just saying like, okay, it's just a garbage truck. And now I run to the window and I know the person. I'm like hi, and I'm like it's just such a beautiful moment and we just have to let them lead Well why do we all have it right on the first snowfall?

Speaker 2:

We all have it. Yes, we all go back to being toddlers and young children every year that first snowfall. Everybody's at the window in complete amazement, right? So if we could just hold on to that, I think that's that first snowfall feeling, that's right, that first snowfall feeling there's a T-shirt.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was just going to say that I unfortunately have to bring this conversation to an end. I would ask you, I think, to close this, not just advice for parents that are listening to this, because you've kind of said that but what do you wish if you were to build your own preschool system on your own? You know, like, what does this curriculum look like? You've mentioned play, but like, how would you structure this? What is your wish list? I guess?

Speaker 2:

I guess my biggest wish list is that we can really bringing just preserving the spirit of childhood and all that it means and not wanting to hurry that growth right, Because if we think about very often I compare children and classrooms to that of a garden, right, and when a gardener is preparing their garden and their plants aren't growing, they don't rip out the plants, they adapt the environment, they don't rip out the plants.

Speaker 2:

They adapt the environment, you know, and create a more favorable environment to allow that plant to flourish and grow and blossom. And I think we have to remember that with our own kids, right, and not hurry, because an apple seed when it's planted and what it looks like when it turns into an apple is very different.

Speaker 2:

planted and what it looks like when it turns into an apple is very different, so we just have to have patience and believe patience, believe love and understanding for the, the time that they need if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to review the podcast, to leave a rating on Spotify or on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 1:

Please take the 30 seconds because it makes a difference in continuing this podcast and allowing me to get more guests onto this podcast. Share this episode with your friends by text, by email. Share it with your coworkers. Post it on parenting groups so that people get the information they need. I will post the inside the show notes.

Speaker 1:

The book that Connie has mentioned called Rest, play and Grow it is an amazing book that is a resource, or should be a resource, for all preschool teachers and parents of preschoolers, and I will post that below. My personal take home was the phrase we need to preserve the spirit of childhood and if it's as simple as that, then I think we can do this as parents. It doesn't take all of these elaborate or expensive toys. All we need to do is let our child be a child. I'm also going to add in the show notes a PDF.

Speaker 1:

If your office has a parenting group or offers lunchtime talks, I am offering 30 companies a free one hour workshop just to help support parents in terms of their well-being and reducing stress. So download that pdf, send it to your team and I will be there for you on a zoom call so that we can talk about how to reduce parental stress. It is becoming more and more apparent that parents need support, and I want to be there for you, for parents at work and at home, and if you have a school or work at a school that offers teacher well-being workshops. I have put the PDF in the show notes as well. This is something that I do. I have been working with schools for years and companies, and I just don't talk about it enough, and so if you are looking for a workshop in your school or your company, please send me an email at info at curiousneuroncom. I hope you have a wonderful week and I will see you next Monday. Don't forget to nurture your needs, because you matter more than ever as a parent. Bye.