Curious Neuron

Setting Boundaries and Holding Space for Teenagers' Emotions with Kirsten Cobabe

• Cindy Hovington, Ph.D. • Season 7 • Episode 3

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In this episode, Kirsten Cobabe, a teen coach, discusses how parents can navigate the challenges of raising teenagers. She emphasizes the importance of building a strong connection with teens and understanding their perspective. Kirsten suggests that parents should shift their mindset and approach the teenage years with openness and curiosity. She encourages parents to set boundaries while also holding space for their teens' emotions and experiences. Kirsten also highlights the significance of community support and mentorship for both parents and teens.

The conversation explores the importance of active listening, vulnerability, and building a strong relationship with teenagers. It emphasizes the need for parents to slow down, pause, and think critically instead of trying to know everything. The fear of not knowing can be a barrier to true connection and understanding. It is important for parents to work on their own emotional regulation and self-compassion in order to support their teenagers effectively. The conversation also highlights the significance of meeting teenagers in their negative moments and refraining from name-calling or labeling them. Apologizing and making promises to improve the relationship can be powerful steps towards rebuilding trust.

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Speaker 1:

Hello, my dear friend, welcome back to another episode of the Curious Neuron podcast. My name is Cindy Hevington and I am your host. In today's episode, we're going to be listening to a conversation that leads to us thinking about how we want to build this relationship we have with our child, who will one day become a teenager, and so if you have a child who's already a teenager, then this episode is definitely for you. If you don't have a child as a teenager, you still want to listen to this, because we are planting the seeds today that will build that strong relationship with their child later, and having this in mind, I think, allows us to do the work now, and so I was really excited to bring in our guest, because I have been following Kirsten Kobabe online on social media and I love what she shares in terms of how to build a strong relationship and how to be more connected and attuned to our children, whether or not they are, regardless of their age, right? So whether they're two years old or 12 years old or 16 years old, they still need us and they still need to feel seen, which is very much aligned with the work that I share here at Curious Neuron, and so, like I said, even if you have a very young child, I still encourage you to listen to this, because it is helping us plant the seeds to that healthy, nurturing, connected relationship that we want to have with our child today and tomorrow.

Speaker 1:

Before we move forward with today's guest, I'd like to thank the Tannenbaum Open Science Institute as well as the McConnell Foundation for supporting the Cures Neuron podcast. Without these two amazing organizations that believe in the work that we are doing here at Cures Neuron, which is sharing the science with parents in order to support your well-being and your child's development, then this podcast would not be possible. This podcast would not be possible without you as well. So thank you to the listeners, to all the listeners from around the world that take the time to listen to the podcast, to download it. Make sure you have pressed on that subscribe button, because that is what allows the system and algorithm to know that you care enough about this podcast to get the updates. And if you haven't done so yet, please click out of this episode and just rate the podcast, whether you are listening to it on Spotify. You can rate it on five stars and leave a review, or you can leave a review on podcasts Apple podcasts and rate it on five stars. The three minutes that you might take to do this is what is going to allow the podcast to continue to be supported, because we look at metrics and metrics matter, and if you haven't done so yet, please take a moment.

Speaker 1:

If you enjoy this episode, share it. If you don't know how to share it, email me. Email me at info at kirstenoncom and I will help you share this episode. I'll send you screenshots if you need to, but that's just how important it is for us to keep spreading the word about Curious Neuron and helping parents learn the science behind parenting and so that they can take this information and do what they will with it. We are not telling you how to parent. We are supporting you in getting the right information so that you can parent in a way that matters most to you.

Speaker 1:

And as your little sneak peek into the Reflective Parent Club, which is now officially opened this Tuesday at 12 pm Eastern and at 8 pm Eastern, you get to choose which one you want to join when you're part of the membership we are going to reflect on. Am I respecting my time? I think that this reflection prompt is such an important one because we often say things like there's just not enough time, and so stepping back to pause and reflect on this is going to be our goal. We have a printable journal that is already up on this topic within the membership and we also have an audio. So if you enjoy listening to the podcast, the entire membership is based on this podcast, in the sense that I want to make it easy for you to learn and to reflect, so I record audios around these reflection prompts so that if you're out for a walk, you can listen to a little 10-minute audio and start thinking about.

Speaker 1:

You know, like last week we were thinking about or reflecting on whether we have some unrealistic expectations for our children, and so you take these reflection prompts that I create and you get to listen to it, you get to write about it and journal about it, and I help you notice what you need to notice within your home and your life and when it comes to personal development or parenting or relationships. We cover all of that within the membership and you get the support from me, because we meet every single Tuesday and we talk about what you're reflecting on and how you can work on this and what you've noticed and what you might be struggling with. Last week, there were some parents that said, okay, I'm struggling with this with my child who's having big emotions around, for example, piano lessons. But in the end we realized that it was their mindset and their negative self-talk. Right. So by reflecting together as a group and getting the guidance you need from me, then you can get to the answers that you need and move forward in becoming that calm and mindful parent and parenting the way that you've always wanted to, with the support from a community and from me.

Speaker 1:

And so, if you want to take advantage of our launch discounts, click the link below. You can get 20% off a full year, which brings it down to $18 per month. Or if you just want to test it out for a month, you can get that at 50% off, which is $14.50 for your month. And also, if you're like, I'm still not sure about this, cindy, then download our free eight week challenge. You will see the new challenge every single Tuesday, which is the reflective prompt that we talk about within the membership. So if you see these eight weeks and you're like, yeah, I need support on this, then join the membership and don't miss our launch discount the Q&A expert at the end of the month will be a relationship therapist, and so that is another bonus for September.

Speaker 1:

And then in October we are going to have Stephanie Harrison, which was one of our guests a few weeks ago, who is the author of the New Happy. She is our Q&A expert within the membership, so if you want to ask your questions yourself, you need to be part of the Cures Non membership called the Reflective Parent Club, all right, so our guest today is Kirsten Kobabe, and she is a former therapist turned coach teen whisperer as she loves to call herself, and she truly is. She's an artist and she specializes in supporting families to navigate the waves of adolescence. For over two decades, she has guided parents in learning how to listen to and talk with their teens. She engages parents in personal reflection, embracing their evolving role, understanding the teen brain and restoring harmony in the home, which is what we all want when we have teenagers. In recognizing this unique stage of development, her hope is to bridge the widening gap between parents and their children, creating conscious, stronger bonds. Through passionate guidance, intentional strategies and tailored techniques, kirsten empowers families to pilot these pivotal years with deeper awareness.

Speaker 1:

I had such an amazing conversation with her and, like I said, although the focus is around teenagers, I think this applies to parents with any child of any age, and not even just parents. If you work with teenagers, so if you know somebody or if you work at a school, take this episode and share it within your community. Share it with teachers, share it with you know counselors that work with teenagers. We all need to hear what Kirsten has to say. What an amazing episode. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did. I'll see you on the other side and welcome back everyone and Kirsten. Welcome to the Kirsten Rohn Podcast. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2:

Cindy, I'm so happy to be here this is.

Speaker 1:

I believe you are the first official expert that we have on board here, with Kirsten Rohn talking about teens, and the reason why is because you know I've been doing this for a few years now, and now you know our children are getting older, including mine. Mine are now five, seven and nine and we're surrounded by teenagers in our home. You know from my husband's family, and I do think we need to have this conversation because lots of parents are wondering OK, school year is starting, I have a teen, I have a lot of worries and a lot of questions, and so I want to address a lot of those with you. Can you first explain a bit of your background? I did in the bio at the beginning, but how did you get into this sort of coaching now, supporting parents this way?

Speaker 2:

I was so lucky to find this work, actually as a teenager that's when I started mentoring parents of teenagers. Wow, and I've always yeah, yeah, I was an older teenager, but still I was it was wonderful and I'd always worked with kids. And when I just have this natural ability to kind of understand what's beyond and beneath the behavior and and see kind of through it all, and that's always been very interesting to me because I value connection and authenticity so much. So I was so lucky to find this work, the young and feel really purposeful and connected in a meaningful way. I used to work as a therapist. I've worked in all the settings as a social worker, which I was trained in, and now I just focus solely on coaching, which, of course, is similar, but it's also very different.

Speaker 2:

For me, the work is very similar to how I worked as a therapist. I was actually never very much into the diagnosing aspect or any of that, much more interested in the relationship. I truly believe that that is, that connection is the key to meaningful change and growth and all of that, just that human connection. So I, yeah, I just feel very lucky to still be in this work and, of course, there's a growing need to understand teenagers and how to truly support and guide them as they move towards young adulthood, and it can be a very challenging time for some parents, because your role is shifting right and you're probably starting to see some of that, right.

Speaker 1:

Would you agree that maybe as a society and as parents, we need to kind of shift our mindset when we come into those teenage years with our kids or, you know, maybe undo some patterns that we had when she might be having or the ways that her parents are supporting her? And it was nothing that I expected. She spoke about family dinners and she said they actually mean a lot to me and I love that. I'm one of the very few people in my class or in my group of friends that has daily family dinners and I look forward to that. And she said that some of her friends say I wish I had that. And then it made me think, wow, that's not what I was expecting from a teen. I was like thinking you know, I don't want to be with my parents, so is it our mindset? Are we going into this thinking, here we go, here come the teenage years. They won't want to be with me, they won't want to know anything about me. Do we need to shift?

Speaker 2:

that. I think that that way of thinking often often comes from maybe what we experienced ourselves. Maybe we didn't want to tell our parents anything, maybe we really didn't want to spend time with them and maybe that wasn't because we were teenagers but because of the way we were being treated at that stage and age. Right, because from what I know from all of the teens in my life for now, over 20 years, almost 25 years they totally want to spend time with their parents, not as much time, not in the same way. What they don't want is that lecturing or to be seen through that negative lens, because that's what they're picking up on, and I would guess that this person you were talking to feels seen and understood by their parents, so that makes that dinner enjoyable rather than painful or challenging or anything that just wouldn't support their growth at this stage. So, yeah, it's absolutely our mindset, our lens. They're evolving. We need to evolve too.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I love that and you are right. She did say that on the nights when you know she had some exams coming up or you know her parents had questions around her sports and how she's performing, that it felt overwhelming and she said, you know, she thinks that that was like the key to it, that she didn't want to sit at dinner and be drilled and be interviewed and questioned and that felt uncomfortable for her. And I wrote it down because I wanted to remember saying this to you. But she said I want my parents to trust me and know that I will make mistakes. I need to. I need them to be there for me when I do mess up to. That's building a good relationship with my parents.

Speaker 2:

Right. I mean this is a 14-year-old right. It's amazing right, and if we think about even just human evolution, it's like the ceiling for the last generation or the floor for the next generation. It doesn't mean anyone's better and it's always consistent like that. However, in this moment I mean look at that wisdom that she has and that she probably also gained with and from her parents they seem to know that and to get that and to be able to meet her in that.

Speaker 2:

Because if we look at this example, it can go a few different ways, or at least two. One is have them studied have you done this, have you done that? And add more stress to an already very stressed out teen. Teens are stressed right now. Or it can be like anything I can do to help and you're with them in that, or just remind them that, no matter what happens on that test, you got them back right. There's such a difference in that approach and usually I mean, no matter how old we are, we want to feel seen and witnessed and understood in that moment, and when we're stressed, the lecture will never do anything anyway. So I mean, no matter how old we are, we want to feel seen and witnessed and understood in that moment, and when we're stressed, I mean the lecture will never do anything anyway.

Speaker 1:

Right, you mentioned that. I want to get to that part too, because I think you had a post that spoke about like not lecturing, you know, teens. Let's move into that slowly, kind of maybe addressing parenting styles, because I know that parents that follow Kirsten are on, many of them have very young kids, you know, under the age of eight or nine, and they're listening to this saying how do I prepare for that? Maybe they've been following conscious parenting, positive parenting, which I've addressed already. You know that I have my own issues with in terms of those terms and what kind of the pendulum in a sense, has swung a little bit too far towards being there for kids or not being there but not having the boundaries, but having the warmth and the connectedness right, and that's led to permissiveness a little bit.

Speaker 1:

So if a parent is listening to this saying, okay, now I've learned through Curious Neuron that I need to balance those boundaries and limits and also show up with warmth and connection, am I following this, you know, into the teenage years or am I upping that boundary and limit a little bit more, which is honestly how I was raised. Once I became a teenager, there was no more warmth and connection. It was all about like don't forget who's in charge here and you better not cross any line because you will have consequences. So there was this way of living in fear all the time. So where's the balance?

Speaker 2:

Such a great question. It's so relevant right now because I'm with you. There's this big pendulum swing, which is what humans tend to do. We go over here, we go over here and really we want to be right here in the middle where we can kind of bob and weave as need be, and so that looks more, and I experienced the opposite. I experienced little guidance, little support, very permissive and didn't know where those edges were, and both of these things we're talking about can feel really intense and scary. Maybe a teenager wouldn't have the words for that, maybe some would. But that balance of I'm here for you and here's the edges and really showing that we can't just say you can't just say that as parents, you actually need to show that and listen and be there and offer that guidance and think ahead. Right, you kind of have to be that critical thinking brain for your team.

Speaker 2:

Because they are in a unique stage of brain development where they actually there are things that are going to be harder for a lot of teens than for adults. They are just growing in certain areas. Their prefrontal cortex is growing and not fully developed. Their limbic system is totally developed. They might be really emotional. So there's a lot of things happening during this stage in age, and so sometimes it's a bit about thinking ahead. What's my teen stepping into in this age and stage? What's natural? What's normal? They're going to take risks, like you said. This girl's like I need to make mistakes. It's part of it.

Speaker 2:

And so if parents can prepare for what's around the bend, then there's a little bit more opportunity to say, hey, you're 16 now, you're going to be driving soon. Or hey, you're in high school now there might be parties you go to. Let's talk about it, let's come up with something that feels good for both of us so that you can have fun and still be safe and so that I'm not shaming you and we maintain this trust and there are ways to speak openly. And I think it's a lot about being authentic and real instead of like I'm the parent and it looks like this, you know, that kind of hat and role almost that gets like put over our true self sometimes, and I see this with parents. And when they take that off and instead really engage in a way that's real, imperfect and meets their teen, human to human, while still being a leader, right, it's amazing what can happen.

Speaker 2:

Teens have a lot of space for these conversations, but yeah, I think it can be intense place. A lot of parents aren't feeling super confident. What are those limits and how do I do that? And so this varies family to family, of course, depending on your values, depending on where you live. There might be differences for curfews and safety and all of this sort of stuff. But if anyone needs sort of a go-to think, think about authoritative what does that look like? And then start exploring some of those examples. Instead of I want to do the opposite of my parents think what's the most balanced approach for this age and stage, for what's around the bend.

Speaker 1:

I love that you mentioned, you know, kind of creating that limit and the boundary so that they know like, okay, I can push not push it but you know how can I explore life and get to know myself too, because they are getting to know who they are. You know it's such a difficult year a couple of years, I think, for myself, like 13, 14, 15 years old was. It wasn't fun for my mom. She was a single mom and I like truly, you know, like applaud her because I pushed those boundaries. But again, it's interesting that we had different upbringings because my boundaries were very strict and so I wanted to push them as much as I could to kind of breathe. You know, like I was like this is, I need space, and I remember my mom saying like if I don't give you those boundaries, like you'll turn out like you'll be a mess, and I was like, okay, but it's so hard when I think of this teenager that I had conversation with.

Speaker 1:

She also spoke about boundaries and how they're not fun sometimes. I think what is hard for a parent is when you set a boundary and that might create a problem for your child with their friendships, right. So I think about the boundary she spoke about around screen times and phones. Where her parents have asked her, the phone stays in the kitchen, in the living room where I see you. It does not go upstairs in your room and that's the rule of our home. But her friends were texting and messaging and on social media at nighttime and she was in bed sleeping because she wasn't joining in the conversation. But that felt right to that family and that's the boundary they had. So when a boundary creates a bit of a rift between your child and their friends, how do you know that you need to maintain that it's a perfect example.

Speaker 2:

I mean, this is so relevant right now and it sounds like maybe this person is still young enough, or their relationship is so strong that she's letting her parents keep her phone in the kitchen, like, and.

Speaker 2:

Or their relationship is so strong that she's letting her parents keep her phone in the kitchen, like, and there's some, well, she's not happy about it, she's not happy about it, right. And then there's some, some older teens where it's like yeah, no, I paid for this, it's in my room, right, it's right. So much variety here. And and I love that you brought this up because, um, I think what, what is important in these moments is, yes, you can stand firm with whatever the boundary is. If it's important to keep that and it really might be like this one might be very important for this family to maintain we can have conversations around what's hard about that be missing out, because we might find out they feel left out or maybe one of their friends is really struggling or maybe there's a group project right, there's this whole range of why they might want to stay connected and have their phone in their room, and that's always what's most interesting to me.

Speaker 2:

Yes, you can solve the boundary Totally, absolutely, and if your team wants to talk or if they're having a hard time with that, I would keep that door open about what's hard about it instead of it all being about the boundary, because not only will then you build trust and keep the line of communication open, but also know more about who your teen is and what's hard for them and what's important to them, Right, and that boundary can look like I spoke about the screen time.

Speaker 1:

Maybe there's a party they want to go to and you don't agree with it because you know who's there. Again, I love that you brought up that question, you know, because then you can at least understand it doesn't mean that you'll give into it, but at least having the conversation of why this is hard for them and that you understand, you're validating it. But it doesn't mean you always have to break that boundary for them.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, exactly, exactly, I think for so many teens and I've seen it a million times right, if we can have space for what sucks and what's hard and what's frustrating, what they can't stand, what they hate, they can move through those emotions and have that experience with guidance, with someone supporting them and understanding it and being like yeah, of course I get that you want to go. It makes a lot of sense to me, so-and-so will be there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, I'm so sorry. This sucks Right, I know, and just hearing that I mean sometimes you go back to your own adolescence and you're like I needed that sometimes. You know, you spoke about this in one of your posts where you talk about honoring and holding space for teens emotions. Is that what you mean when you're just kind of like allowing them to feel that and not necessarily like butting heads against it and saying you shouldn't feel sad or upset about it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't think I've ever had an experience where I've said you shouldn't feel that way or don't tell me how you're feeling, right? Yeah, oh, I've heard this. It's all welcome and it's every single time. We welcome what is, we are accepting what is which is really important in life. It doesn't mean we lay down and let someone knock all over us. That's not accepting it's what is happening, allowing space for that, and then we can go through that and then you take the next best action or next best step. And so what I see for teens the more we do this from complaining to frustration to sadness we get to have that experience Because, let's remember too, some of these things are kind of brand new, because they have this new way of looking at the world, this new brain coming online, and they're actually getting real life practice and need our support with that.

Speaker 2:

And then, within that, they get to feel like there's space for all of me here and I don't have to cut off any of my limbs or not feel certain things, and my parent is strong enough to hold space for even my most ugly, imperfect self. And then it moves through. Even if you haven't changed the boundary, that process can have a completion.

Speaker 1:

Right. This is so beautiful because I think that even if my kids are not teens yet, it takes away that worry knowing that this is the way. But I know that there are moms and dads probably listening right now and saying hold on. Does that mean that every time something happens where they cross that limit or boundary, am I holding space for them and saying, well, you went to that party and you snuck out, I'm going to hold space for that and everything. Well, you went to that party and you snuck out, I'm going to hold space for that and everything will be fine. Does that mean that they cannot ever have a very strict consequence in terms of, like that's it, you're not leaving this house for a month, or whatever it is? I'm assuming the answer is no.

Speaker 2:

The answer is no, right, and this is why we get to dive deeper into this, because it can be so easily misunderstood. Right, and so, yeah, your teen sneaks out and you find out the common response that so many of us got. Maybe some of us got screamed at or yelled at or disappointed space or harsh punishments, kind of immediately there's room for something different, where you're like okay, so you snuck out, let's talk about it. I, you know, you know the career and you know the rules. What changed? How did you make that decision? Walk me through that, right, and then you can hear their side of it.

Speaker 2:

I mean, this, of course, is part of how you keep an open, trustful relationship. But also, if you don't shop, when you might have to work towards this and be like I'm not going to yell at you, I truly want to know what happened so I can understand what it's like to be you. And then you have a conversation. Maybe you're eating, maybe you're driving car rides are good for those. You can do it in whatever kind of environment feels natural, right. And then it's like well, because I happen, that doesn't feel super safe for me. I'm glad you're home safe for you, and I think we'll just dial it back a bit, and so this weekend we're all going to stay home and it's going to look like this.

Speaker 2:

And then next time there's a party we're going to, we're going to try again, right. And so you're. There's consequences. Maybe they're natural. You understand where they're coming from. You make a better plan next time and it might look something like that, right, where your teen then isn't feeling like attacked or they're a bad person, or their parent doesn't understand them, but their parent understands. Then there are consequences and we can all move forward.

Speaker 1:

You know, I hope the parents are hearing what I'm hearing, in the sense that once our kid becomes a teen, it's clear that you don't step back and say, well, that's it, I did what I had to do and it's over. And now I hope for the best Right, which is what I think you know through the conversations with my own friends. Sometimes it's like have left to do as their parent, their leader, which you've used a few times, and I absolutely love that, because strong leadership means that you hold those boundaries, that you feel confident in what you're doing and you have those effective communication skills. I've always said that, even to parents who have a two-year-old. And now that's what I'm getting from you. Am I understanding it right? Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And what's beautiful about the teen years is, I think it really isn't about hands-off, it's about leaning in really intentionally. And so, if we want to expand a little bit, what's coming up for me on that curfew party scene is like the teen years are the perfect time to then say what do you think I might be concerned, as your parent, about you sneaking out? Right? Help them start to get it from within themselves. This is how we help them have more awareness, to self-reflect, to think about safety, because that's not going to be what they're thinking about. Most teens not all teens Some teens are very safety oriented.

Speaker 2:

A lot, have that risk reward thing going on and they're going to say you know what it's worth it if I'm going to see that cute guy or this friend, right, and they're like you know what it's worth it. Those kinds of questions are what can happen during these years? Why do you think this? What did you notice about that? How can you think I might be really concerned as your parent?

Speaker 2:

And then, on top of that, unfortunately the era we're in means thinking a lot about things like where they're going to, what they're going to be drinking, eating, smoking, where did it come from? Right If you have an older teen or teen that likes to go to parties, and so these are the things that we do need to consider. We can't just not look at and prepare teens for and help them be the best support for themselves and a critical thinker and make those worst case scenario plan. It's really hard and I think it's so scary because no one wants to think about their child in a tough situation, of course, but what's worse than being in a tough situation is not knowing what to do in that, not being able to call my mom, all of that stuff being proactive, right In terms of you know they're going to a party.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about everything that can possibly happen Maybe not everything, but almost right. Like so that they have you to think of. Like they'll think about the conversation they had with you in that moment. I'm thinking now about the parents that, like, have a child who's starting high school for the first time and that's a very difficult transition. I have a friend whose child is going through that and there's a lot of worry, right, like, how will I make friends? Will I be the cool kid? Will it be too difficult in terms of the subjects? Will I do well, my grades are important. What would you say to that parent? You know, what kind of conversations can you have going into this new journey?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this is what's happening right now is in so many families, school is starting. Some people are starting new schools and it is a lot. Even if your teen doesn't really care about academics, that central piece is a lot. Or what they're wearing, or if the teachers are going to be nice, or you know. There's so many dynamics. So I know my way around the school and, yeah, there's a lot of. I think there's a lot of opportunity. You're like okay, so you're starting a new school. Is anything coming up for you? Is there stuff that feels big or feels scary, or big question marks or stuff that you're just so not looking forward to? You know how might we talk to a friend if they were starting a new job and instead of just you'll be fine and you're smart?

Speaker 2:

right and all that reassurance we want what's more supportive, at least from my lens and from what I experienced, is be like oh, yeah, of course you'd be thinking about that. That makes sense to me. So, if I'm hearing you right, it's like X, y, z and dah, dah, dah, and you kind of offer that reflection back and you don't have to get it right. It's not about that Plenty of times I do that and change it like no, no, no, no, it's about this, and I'm like, okay, okay, got it Right. It's more about that genuinely trying to understand where they're at and make space, validate what's hard and tricky about that.

Speaker 2:

And then some teens might want to do a little problem solving or do a little planning, like, okay, you want to walk through some of that, and somebody be like, no, no, no, they just needed to share what was annoying and hard.

Speaker 2:

Other teens are like, yeah, I kind of want to walk through it, and so we can have conversations like that, or we can prepare them a little bit and support them for what's to come, or just make space for what they're afraid of and trust that they are going to learn something through that and they're going to make it through the day, and you can even say it's okay, we don't have to talk about it anymore, we don't have any plans, just know you can always text me and then be able to really show up in that right and say, oh my gosh, that sounds hard, and then they'll keep sharing. Right, you want to stay away from but you'll be fine. But you'll be fine, unless you particularly have a teen that likes that reassurance and most teens that kind of but it's okay, feels a bit dismissive. They really need a lot of space to process.

Speaker 1:

Do you think some parents kind of hesitate to do that and to open those doors and for the conversation? One, because, like you mentioned, what if I don't have the answer? What if I don't have the perfect answer that they need to hear? Two, what if my child says something that is something I didn't want to hear? Right, that might be really uncomfortable for the parent. I'm assuming we don't ignore the conversation and what you said just for that right.

Speaker 2:

Usually the reason we're not showing up this way is because of fear I'm not going to be able to hold space for this big emotion. Or, yeah, what if they tell me something that I don't want to know? Um, and this is brings me back to kind of this really important part of humanity that hopefully we're getting back to and that some people have that are listening or, more, hopefully, everybody but support and community. This is how we make through this stuff. This is how we hold the year. They walk together, right, it's like parenting is not supposed to be one or two or maybe three, right, if you have kind of a step parent in the mix, it's. It's really more than that.

Speaker 2:

It's so important to have other people that you can connect with about this and that can hold space for your teenager, especially teenagers. This is that perfect age to have mentors and coaches and guides that you trust and that have the same values as your family and all of that stuff. They can offer something that parents can't. There is this part of teens it's like. When it comes to their parents, it's like they're not going to hear it in the same way sometimes, but if they hear it elsewhere, it will land. It will land deeply and in a different way sometimes, and this is why in ancient times, not even that long ago, but teens went off and tried a mission, an adventurous skill building, experience and a guide. And you know, this is why and so I'm thinking about support here in community, because this will help and support parents, be able to hold space for those hard moments.

Speaker 2:

If you know, you can call your therapist, your coach, your friend that's been through it, that community parent group you're in and say, hey, this is what I'm dealing with, right, and if something like that does come up, you go, oh, wow, okay, I don't have the answers yet, but we're gonna figure them out like I've got to. Y'all have to know everything. Who knows everything? And I personally believe this is one of the side effects of conventional modern schooling it's like don't even think, just know the answer, and it's like gosh. I wish the opposite was encouraged, because slowing down, pausing, thinking critically, looking at the whole picture, breathing this is how we come to true answers and truths and connection, not like boom, boom, I just know everything. It's impossible and that is impossible standards for parents to just know everything in the moment.

Speaker 1:

I agree with you.

Speaker 2:

All that to say. I think the fear is what gets in the way sometimes, and so we can even practice on ourselves. If this is really uncomfortable, it's like, okay, if something comes up for me, let me try this with myself, my inner child or just myself today. Right Going, that's okay. I don't know the answer. I'm feeling uncomfortable and you can just have that experience and know that you can. You actually are strong enough to experience that and at times when you feel like you're not find your people that you can call. But yeah, that fear can be really such a barrier to true connection and even just our innate wisdom and I know this from because we all know this right we all have moments where we're terrified and scared or feel alone or don't have the answer and it's very scary.

Speaker 2:

And so if we're scared of it, oh my gosh, imagine how teenagers are feeling.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, I know, and what you just said reminds me, like what I talked to parents about, which is it starts with you, right, even when your child is young. If you struggle with emotion regulation, then you might struggle with that co-regulation piece, and if you struggle with your emotions and dealing with certain behaviors, you will struggle with supporting your child, in that your wellbeing will, you know, impact how you support your child as well. From what you're seeing, it trickles down into teenage years as well, where, if we do have some fears, you know, maybe we need to work on them before. I know parents, you know, that are part of this community, have younger kids. So it's never too late to work on that.

Speaker 1:

Confidence, or the word that I think of is, you know, vulnerability as well. In those moments, as a leader, you might want to always show strength, and I don't think that we think of vulnerability as courage and strength. I see it that way Whenever I give a workshop or I'm talking to parents, when I open up and talk about my struggles as a parent, then everybody feels the courage to say like, oh yeah, I struggle with that too. I thought you didn't struggle with anything. I'm like how is that even possible, right? So I think, in those moments with our child even saying, I'm assuming, like, even saying, like I don't know what to do with this. This is a really tough situation, that you're in them seeing that there aren't answers right away and that we can work on this together, I'm assuming, gives them the courage in that moment as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, of course it's like, especially, yeah, if we kind of say you don't know right now, and that's okay, it's uncomfortable, but it's okay, it's normal, it's natural and we're going to find a way and I'm with you. I mean, it's not about we know this from even just the ACEs you know the ACEs score. It's like if there's a hard thing, it's not the hard thing, it's the feeling alone, having no support, that make the hard thing really hard. So that togetherness is so key. And you bet um was you were talking, I was just thinking.

Speaker 2:

Yet teenagers children in general, but certainly teenagers have a way of eliminating where our work is, where we have some wounds, where we, where we, you know, can spend some extra time and and that can be so uncomfortable too, and, and teenagers particularly, have such a bad rep for being difficult and challenging. And while I'm not saying that's not true, because grace can be and this is a growth stage, right, it's very transformational in the brain and the body. It's also like there's massive opportunity for different, deeper way of together and walking together and yeah, it's pretty powerful.

Speaker 1:

It's so beautiful to see it that way. It really is powerful. I hope this is taking away some of the worries that some parents have. It is for myself, just of seeing it that way and if I can continue building that relationship that's opened, and even with my own kids.

Speaker 1:

You know it's very easy to discipline very quickly. But even with young kids saying, why did you do that, like you know, even with a five-year-old, why did you just grab the toy out of your brother's hands and then giving them that space to say he was ignoring me when I asked him to share, or he was, I don't know. I told him not to touch that one and he didn't follow my boundary. My five-year-old can express that boundary. My five-year-old can express that. And then instead of just going into discipline and saying, put that toy back down, how dare you grab it out of your brother's hands, there's a conversation and I'm hoping that that can continue, you know, into their teenage years.

Speaker 1:

One thing that I know is a challenge sometimes for parents is friendships, right, so we do want our kids to make friends that support them, that are there, that become part of their community, but then we do know that part of being in high school is there will be many different kinds of people and friends and and that there is a chance that your child builds a friendship with somebody that you don't necessarily agree with and I know that this is very hard for parents. How do you approach this with your child if you know for a fact that they're with somebody, or hanging out with somebody, that you just don't agree with?

Speaker 2:

This is bringing me back to even some of my choices as a teenager. I'm remembering some of the people that I hung out with, and the reason why was because I was looking for something that I wasn't getting at home, that I needed in my life. I wasn't getting a home that I needed in my life. And so one of the proactive, preventative, intentional ways is to actually be such an epic, support, amazing person in your teen's life that they're satisfied in a sense in that way Not to say they're not going to also then go out and make mistakes and, you know, have a variety of friends and there's something magic about that feeling. I mean, if we can all imagine, like my parents just got me and they were there for me, like how good that feels. And then there's also this ability within that to have conversations about yeah, what kind of people are you looking to be friends with? And not in a leading way. You might feel like you want a little of this and a little of that and maybe you don't know. And and help them, like we were talking about before, have their own reflection about what's healthy and solid and real and true. And even if they say like I want, I want friends at party instead of like no, no, no, no, you don't want that be. Like tell me more what sounds fun about parties, because for some teens it might be, might be really innocent or it might be something that you want to talk further about or there's an issue there, right?

Speaker 2:

And so it's kind of again a lot of things we've been talking about. Make space for all of it. Don't shut anything down. You're kind of gathering info like a curious friend rather than like a parent that wants to totally control everything, because you're not going to be able to. That's the reality, and you want your teen to be able to make the best possible choices and you will set up certain parameters that help to guide them and keep them safe as they do that, because they are going to make mistakes.

Speaker 2:

And so those are just some thoughts that come up about friends and I think there's some really deep conversations. I have a few teens that I know that are interested in going to parties or meeting boys and all this stuff, and we still get to have those conversations about what's a real friend. When you think about the best kind of friend that could ever be, what do you see, what do you feel, what's that like and they get to really anchor that and even explore how they can be that for other people and how they can welcome that. And some teams are really deep, so they'll have conversations about energy and what we put out there and getting you know all kinds of things can open up philosophical conversation. It's amazing what, where we can go when we sort of give teams a little bit of credit and see where they take us, because they're pretty open-minded and in an expansive state, hence why we need some boundaries, right.

Speaker 1:

So when I'm hearing this, also, I think about one of your posts that talked about prioritizing listening over lecturing, and I know that many of us, even with younger kids, we fall into that. We were. Maybe these are patterns that we have where we just kept getting lectures from our own parents, sometimes growing up. Um, you know, we see that as the teaching moment. But now that I think about what you're saying and I you know I'm thinking of this post we're talking a lot about talking to our kids, and what you're saying is really hearing them. So so is that what you mean by active listening, and is there still space for some lecturing, or you feel that it's just not what's going to be, like you know, beneficial to our kids For a lot?

Speaker 2:

of teens it's you, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, right, active listening, reflective listening, real, true, authentic listening. And then after that there's usually space to share something, and what can be really supportive for parents is to say like, once you've done all that, really it's been a minute, or they've really vented or whatever's happened you've really listened. You can kind of be like I'm so getting it, so it's like this and like that. And they're like yeah, yeah. And then you're like okay, I have a thought, are you interested in hearing Even the offering? They have some choice there. You're not just like, hey, now, mister, you really need, you know, like that, right, sit down and yeah, it's true, yeah, it's true.

Speaker 2:

And they might say they're going to most likely be like, yeah, sure, it's very rare that they'll be like no way. And if they do, then it just means they're totally overwhelmed, they're totally dysregulated, or maybe you haven't listened as well as they need you to, and that's good feedback to have, that's helpful feedback. And so it's like okay, no problem, is there anything else that you want to share that feels important? I promise I'm going to just listen and I really want to understand and do your best with that. I mean, you know what's really hard and do your best with that. I mean, you know it's really hard because so many of us actually weren't modeled this.

Speaker 1:

No well, yeah, exactly, I don't know what that looks or feels like. Yeah, I was going to ask, actually as a follow-up. Maybe some parents don't really know what active listening is in terms of. You know, because I talk with parents who also struggle with this in relationships and active listening is hard, you know. Sometimes I ask parents think about the last argument you had with a partner While they were not speaking. Were you even just as a basic, were you listening to what they were saying or thinking about how to prove your point the next time you have a moment to talk and everybody always erupts in laughter because they know that's what they do, right? So, but listening is not just staying quiet in that moment. What is active listening and what does it look like?

Speaker 2:

It's imagine what it's like to be this person in what they're sharing with us. Right, we can imagine if I were them and they're saying this and it feels like this and you really? Um, we can never exactly know what it's like to be someone else, but we all have the ability as humans to be compassionate and empathetic and imagine what it could be like to be going through that and to slow down enough and attune and even just realize wow, this is someone in pain, this is someone having a hard time. Take away like I'm their parent and they're my child. They need to listen to me. It's like this is another human that's really struggling right now. And what do like? What do we need as humans?

Speaker 2:

And I think what's tricky about this is sometimes we don't even know how to listen to ourselves when we're having a hard time, because we weren't modeled this so many of us and so we are learning something new, in a sense, and I and I feel so much peace knowing that it's in our bones and in our DNA.

Speaker 2:

Somehow it has happened along the way, even if we didn't get it from our parents. Maybe we did from our grandparents, or maybe they got it from their parents or we got it from a friend or a mentor and so it's imagining being in someone else's shoes At this stage. This person is going through this Wow and sometimes it's just wow and that's what you can say and you can nod, and it's not about what you're going to say next. Get rid of that. I have to say the perfect thing. That script I heard on my side or your side or whatever. That can be so helpful sometimes, but it can also take us away from just being truly, truly present with what is. When someone is hurting a lecture is never going to matter, or a heartfelt response, and just being there in what they're sharing and knowing that them getting that out is one of the most important parts of the process of co-regulation that we can just hold it with them and bear the weight.

Speaker 1:

Which is heavy. It's hard too right, which is why you need to kind of work on yourself, because it's not going to be easy, you know, like everything that we spoke about, I think it gives us guidance and kind of this confidence that we can go about this and move forward with our kids being teens and kind of be there for them. But if we are struggling ourselves, which you've alluded to, now, it's not easy. You spoke about the compassion part and I had heard an interview I forget what the podcast was, but they were interviewing Brene Brown and she said something that marked me.

Speaker 1:

I wrote this down and she spoke about if we struggle with self-compassion, then odds are we will struggle with compassion for others and it'll turn into judgment. So she used her daughter as an example, who I don't know. She took down a ponytail or something like that and she said her mom said why do you? Why are you doing that? And she's like well, my friends, you know they were judging me and saying that it wasn't, you know, it didn't look good or whatever it was.

Speaker 1:

And she was able to express, you know this compassion to her daughter. But then two minutes later she was like telling her husband take down the Christmas lights or, you know, our neighbors are going to judge us. She was kind of struggling with like modeling that and so on. So you know, it just reminds me that we have to kind of practice it on ourselves and how we're compassionate for ourselves, how we think about others around us, because we will have our own child to model that for, and even, like you know, saying you should love your body. But then we, you know, do something and we're like oh, I've gained so much weight, I don't look good in these jeans. And you know we have to think about what we're modeling, including compassion.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that example. And teens, children in general, they know you Like. If you're their parent, they just know you inside out, upside down and all around, like your energy and your essence. Right, they have been attuned. Talk about attunements. They are masters at knowing exactly where you're at. If you're like yeah, I'm good, they know and you're not, they know you're not right.

Speaker 2:

And so there's this beauty in being, as you spoke to earlier and even alluded to that Brene Brown story, is this vulnerability of just humanness right, even if you're in it with your teens, like, you can stop and be like I just realized I didn't listen to you. Can you say that again, because it's really important that I hear you and really hear you right, there's room for mistakes the whole way. If we can, as we can, be accountable and clear and aware of them, your teens have to be like hey, you know, if we can, it's. It's when we go down that track of not listening the whole time, then coming back with lecturing. That's when they say, hey, you weren't listening, right, but if we can, if we can notice it as we're going and say I want to get this right, like I really want to understand what this is like for you, and then we do our best and we try to get better and also, yeah, just be vulnerable no-transcript me about that, in the sense that we're building this really beautiful relationship with our child.

Speaker 1:

We are, you know, giving them that space and you know we're not saying like I'm the parent, you do what I say and you have to follow, and if you don't, then there are consequences and so on and shaming them for that. It's truly inspiring the respect that we want, whether it would be the relationship with their child or anybody else. Right, like this kind of relationship is a strong, healthy relationship. Maybe there are some parents listening to this saying I've been doing it all wrong and I feel like a really shitty parent right now. I have a teenager who's not listening, who's going off and doing things that I don't agree with. I don't know how to bring that back and I've been demanding respect and I have not been holding myself accountable. I'm a mess as a parent, right? I always kind of want to make sure that I address that parent because sometimes it's hard to hear these things and say I wasn't doing that. How do we kind of show them compassion right now and what's the path or the journey that follows this conversation they've heard?

Speaker 2:

I would say that there's grief and growth, which is sometimes why we try to avoid it, I think, isn't it Right?

Speaker 2:

It can be painful, right, when we realize, oh, I've been doing it all you know wrong, quote wrong, and so if anyone here is feeling like oh and ouch, and like oh gosh, I could only start over all of that, we can. You can say oh shit. Or like oh, my God, or whatever. You can actually say this to your teen I have been missing out, I've totally missed the boat in this way, in that way, in this way, and here's what I want to do and I hope that you would be willing to. You know, go get a starbucks with me, start small, start with what they like, honor them.

Speaker 2:

Apologizing is not putting something on someone, it's just speaking what's true and being accountable. I've missed something, I've missed out. I've missed Mark. I thought it was about this. It's really about this and I want to make sure that I, that I from this place, moving forward or being really accountable here and honoring who you are and what's important to you and how we can have the best possible relationship. I realize it might take a minute, especially if I've disappointed you or been too harsh or critical, and you might not trust me, and that makes sense because you know what? We also want teens to have that sixth sense and trust their gut with it. When people are being harsh with them, that they don't want to hang out with them, or being disrespectful to them or hurtful or whatever it is, you want them to have that strong sense of that they're not in other. You know, balanced relationships.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, I really do hope that a parent listening to this realizes that it's never too late. If we even just think about our own parents, right, if there was an apology even now, as a 41 year old, you know for certain things that I still remember very clearly in my mind, but when they're addressed it's like well, you overplayed it or you were just too sensitive in that moment. Or are you saying I'm a bad parent and never? Receiving that apology sometimes hurts. And even if now you have a teenager, it is not too late to apologize.

Speaker 1:

And, like you said, it's not just about that. It's really about you know you're holding yourself accountable for you know things that you've done or said and saying like I don't want to repeat that. I want to make sure that you know this relationship is important to me and I want to work on this with you, but I need you to be there with me now. It might be hard, especially if things you know, the relationship maybe isn't where you wanted it to be. Maybe there'll be a rebuilding of trust. I'm assuming, right, if you know, if this is coming out of nowhere and your teen's like I don't know this is really going to happen, but there has to be that rebuilding yeah.

Speaker 2:

And expect them to be a little weary. That's healthy, that's natural. I even think about the teens I meet when I'm a new person in the world. I'm like that it might take a minute for them to even be okay with talking to me, and so we have to build that trust and if there's any repair that needs to be done, yet, there's reparenting work, there's reflection and there's repair all tied up into that.

Speaker 2:

Maybe parents can make a promise Like here's my promise, because I really missed out and I'm deeply sorry and I actually wish that I could turn back the clock.

Speaker 2:

And so, moving forward, here's something I promised, and make it a promise you can actually do and and grow from there. And yeah, I'm with you If one of my parents came to me and said, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I missed whatever it is that still hurts for me, and so, and if, and we may never get that, and and you know we, but we can give that and we can give it to ourselves and we can give it to our kids, it's, it's. There's so much beautiful work in um. Sometimes I'll even imagine, right, my parents saying something like that hi, yelena, and that can be beautiful too, even though it feels imaginary, it's almost, um, it's like inner child work, where you can kind of write your own story and create something different, and when we do that it ripples in every direction. It's not just forward, I believe. It's all encompassing to some degree you know, relationship with our child.

Speaker 1:

Maybe there is some repair for us in our childhood that will make it a bit easier for us. You know, like I do believe that sometimes we have to kind of address those and not really ignore certain things that happened. You know, like that's okay, I'm having a lot of trouble stopping this conversation. I am enjoying everything that you were saying and I can't thank you enough for this conversation. I think for me to end this to kind of like, maybe shed a bit more light, given the teenagers that you've worked with, what are some things that you've heard them say that you wish every single parent would know. You know some things that we only learn after the fact and we can know now, as we're going into these years.

Speaker 2:

They actually really care deeply about what their parents think about them and are so attuned to what they really think about them, right, and so that's that authenticity piece. They do care, they do want to have a good relationship with you, they want to be seen as bread through your eyes and they want you to understand them, or at least you know, try. And I think one of the most overlooked, underutilized areas to connect is when teenagers are frustrated or complaining, and those negative moments where so many of us were called disrespectful or ungrateful or whatever. Those moments, because teens aren't always going to know what they love or be excited, especially because they're sleep deprived. Just so everyone's clear, they're very sleep deprived. They're going to stage when they need sleep more than any other time in their life. So, leaning into those moments, if they're annoyed, frustrated or complaining or seemingly ungrateful.

Speaker 2:

Have fun in that area and enjoy that. That's an invitation. This is something that I think can change a lot of lives, because I've seen it happen. It's an invitation. They're telling you about what it's like to be them. It's not coming through a positive lens, but sometimes that's where we're at. We just know what we hate, we don't know what we love.

Speaker 2:

And meet them in that and see if you can play there and just not take it personally. It doesn't mean you're going to be a negative, horrible person and you're enabling their bad behavior. It's human, especially in the teen years, to kind of go ick. They are literally getting rid of their childhood self, walking towards their older self and they need for help with that and so thinking of it like a butterfly coming out of a cocoon or whatever metaphor helps you through that kind of what feels maybe a little ugly or negative. That's okay. We all grew up I mean so many of us grew up to be people pleasers and focus on the positive and all this stuff. Life is everything, especially during a highly pivotal growth stage right, and so I would imagine that people listening you've had a teen complain before, whether it be about what you made for dinner or their teacher at school. Meet them in that moment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, it's been such a pleasure. You just touched on something and I realized this is something maybe just as a reminder to parents name calling right, like putting a label on our kids, and I think you addressed this too in terms of being ungrateful or lazy. I had spoken to a woman a couple of years ago who was diagnosed with autism in her late thirties and she said something that marked me. She had said that her parents would call her lazy, she wasn't doing well in school and that she wasn't trying hard enough. She said there is not one child or teenager that intentionally is trying to do their worst in school at life never. And she said that's a sign that there's something going on and that we need to kind of open our minds towards that, rather than just saying like, stop being so lazy, do better in school, stop being this, that, whatever it is these labels Because, like you said, we start taking that on right as a label for ourselves.

Speaker 1:

And I remember struggling a lot with exams because my internal dialogue was very negative, like you're not good enough, you're not smart enough, my you know, my brother was always the smart child of the, you know, of the family, and so those labels kind of start coming up at the wrong time If a parent. Again, I don't know how to address this question. I just wanted to bring this up, but it's something that you mentioned that I just thought was important to say.

Speaker 2:

It's very important. It's like normalized actually to me and call children which is weird. We would never do this with our friends and these are our children. They deserve the absolute best. They're growing through very important childhood stages and brain development in a very wild world and more than anything, they need to see themselves clearly, especially as they're wavering. So we need to see them clearly and as a friendly reminder grades don't matter, they don't, they never really did. Friendly reminder grades don't matter, they don't, they never really did, but they definitely don't.

Speaker 2:

Now. If anyone here is like, no, my kid's really struggling in school, but they're so smart, they have potential, they don't matter. Maybe you have a type A kid and grades do matter and they're going to go be a doctor, that's totally fine. Never letting grades or thinking they're lazy and don't care about homework get in the way of your relationship. It's not worth it. The world is changing really fast. There's no scarcity for opportunities for learning and jobs and work and magic and gifts, so that just feels really important. Now it's a little off of what you were saying, but I know that a lot of that name calling can come from that fear of like, oh no, they're going to fail and success is not what we think it is no, it's true, and I think it comes, you know, from a place for parents, and if I scare them enough or if I show them like don't be this, then they'll do the opposite.

Speaker 1:

But it doesn't work. It just it doesn't help. It really doesn't help.

Speaker 2:

Again, kirsten, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. How can people listening, you know, join you and learn more from you? People can visit me at Kirsten on Instagram. I try to get back to every comment message as best I can, and then I still, and for as long as I can, offer one free 30 minute call per family. So even if you're not interested in long-term coaching or don't feel resourced for that, you can still schedule that with me if you'd like. And thank you so much for having me. I absolutely loved connecting with you today. It means so much to me.

Speaker 1:

I hope we get to chat again soon. Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. You can have all the links to resources, such as Kirsten's connections and her Instagram account below. You can join the Reflective Parent Club our new Kirsten Ron membership with the links below as well, or get access to our wellbeing free bundle kit in the show notes or the eight week challenge. Thank you for listening to the Kirsten Ron podcast. Make sure you share this with friends and colleagues, and I will see you next week. Please don't forget to take care of yourself, my dear parent. You matter more than anything else, and so this is why I record a podcast episode every week with you in mind. I'll see you next week. Have a wonderful and beautiful week. Bye.